Discussion in '9/11' started by Jango, Jun 29, 2012.
I'm still waiting for you, Fangbeer, Dave, and Patriot to contribute.
Be nice, right?
Maybe if your OP wasn't so generic in it's intent, then maybe there would actually be something to debate.
I was attempting to help you with my response to the events and key personalities which lead to the demise of the Roman Republic (zomg parallels!!11), but history doesn't seem to interest you nor be your strong suit.
Frankly I have no desire to discuss "in detail" my views regarding the 10 broad topics listed in the OP in a forum dedicated to 9/11 conspiracy. The OP fails to establish any sort of relevancy at all to 9/11 conspiracy. If the purpose is to discuss these topics, the post should be moved to the appropriate forum.
If, as the further clarification alludes, the purpose is some sort of convoluted attempt to establish precedence for 9/11 "false flag" conspiracies, then I suggest the pretense be dropped and the topic be discussed in that context.
In that vein of thought I've always been interested in how people conjure up the hare-brained motives to commit conspiracies. Obviously, "false flag" operations have to be formed to carry out some hidden agenda. It's the formation of the suspected motive that's so interesting to me. It's an ironically introspective process. It begins with the basic question, "what would I do if given the power and opportunity?" Given such theoretical unlimited power, all sorts of super villainous plots are hatched. Armies of minions are coerced into doing the most evil things in the the sewers of the theorist's mind. The most fantastic array of weaponry is at the dreamer's disposal. Everything's possible.
What's interesting though, is that there have been studies which show that these dressed up strawmen are actually projections of a person's willingness to carry out such crimes. For example, someone who thinks that Larry demolished WTC7 for insurance money might also be someone willing to consider burning their own house down for the same reason.
Once they decide their straw motive is likely, they begin to build a gallows on which to hang their strawman. The choicest bits and pieces of evidence are selected like fine cuts of wood, and the pieces that don't fit are simply thrown in the midden heap. The theorist loves his construction and will defend it to a fault. To everyone else, the conspiracy is a load of rubbish. Even other theorists will realize how poorly constructed the [narrative] is. The finished work is always a rickety pile of garbage because frankly it's been terribly constructed with half of its pieces sitting in the trash. This is why there is so much fighting and accusations of "disinfo agents" among theorists. It's because each of them has different lengths to which they would go in order to accomplish their different motives.
It's quite interesting.
They were all wars of attrition shedding blood and wasting lives and a means to an end culminating to create one thing....
.....a NEW WORLD ORDER.
But praise the LAWD it's not gonna work.
Case in point.
Here we have a theorist that has decided that the list of 10 broad topics have all been masterminded by an nefarious villain trying to control the entire world. Clearly, it was one motive, rather then thousands of motives, that was the impetus for such global conflict. The truth isn't a complex cacophony of differing political views, disputes over limited resources, or incompatible social values. All of those things are a smokescreen created by the villain. The truth is so much simpler. It's all the villain's fault.
No doubt each of the 10 topics listed can be viewed as successes for the nefarious villain who gained untold power from the outcomes of the brilliantly evil plots. The villain is so dastardly and powerful that there is nothing he can't do. All of his plots are always win win. There's no losing with this guy. Of course, most of the world is oblivious to the machinations of the unnamed villain, but those with superior intellect can see through the schemes and plots to the dirty truth.
It's nice for the great puzzles of the world to have such simple explanations, isn't it?
How is ones own personal viewpoint on history, their freedom of thought, expression, and speech generic? What else do we really have besides thoughts and words?
And I know that it is your thing to troll people, and I generally ignore it when directed towards me, but the pursuit and attainment of knowledge in history...it's among my favorite things to do. I just don't know it all.
I don't know any other way to express that this forum is for discussion of 9/11 conspiracy. This forum is specific in its dedication to 9/11 and the discussion of alternate opinions of the events of that day. It's not a forum to discuss personal viewpoints on any and all history. That is why the question in the OP is too generic. If you want to discuss "viewpoint on history" might I suggest the "History and past politicians" forum, or even the "warfare / military" forums?
I'm not trolling you here, I'm trying to grasp wtf this topic is supposed to be about, and, how it relates to the 9/11 Forum.
Ignore this all you want, you'll just be left with a useless topic that's been crowbarred into this forum in the most ham-fisted of manners Mr. Pursuit and Attainment of Knowledge. Your pursuit of knowledge should lead you to the TOS, where you completely missed the boat in the very first two sentences of said TOS.
Carry on history "buff".
Since specifics are wanted, specifics will be given.
My intention and goal of this thread is to gauge the levels of patriotism, nationalism, exceptionalism, and tribalism of the members who frequent this section. How they answer determines how they view the US and American government over a measurable time frame. A person's loyalty to their government and nationality and country can clout their judgment. Being able to look at things from a different perspective helps. Hence, the creation of this thread. One of the first steps in realizing 9/11 isn't as it appears to be is to recognize that US military and clandestine history is full of events that are motivated by one or more of several things: money, oil, business, resources, power.
What further exacerbates the situation for the kind of person that listens to the news but does no independent fact checking is they tend to believe what they've been told by the media the majority of the time. The media reports what they've been told by the government. The special analysts are biased. And they were spoon-fed highly sanitized Pro-American literature during their K through 12 training. All they know is what they've been told by the media and government. There is no outside the box thinking.
You don't mean outside the box thinking. You mean inside your box thinking. That entire post was an exposition of your own biases. Just because someone doesn't espouse your "alternative" understanding of historical events, that does not mean they were not exposed to those concepts and rejected them based on careful and objective analysis.
This is, ironically, the opposite of an objective pathway to the study of 9/11. This is not an open minded approach. This is an approach that views the event through the lens of a "clandestine history." You've decided that this event must have clandestine elements because you feel other events have had clandestine elements. This is fallacy at its best.
Look at Jango, trying to put people into his cute little categories that are meaningless claptrap. Oh how open minded you are......
Like I said, ham-fisted thread is ham-fisted.
How do you intent to "prove" 9/11 was a false flag operation by providing other unproven false flag operations as evidence? That is like proving the existance of the Easter Bunny because Leprechauns exist.
And what are your sources for this "independent fact checking"? Anti American college professors or textbooks? (Yes, there are plenty), Places like the letsrollforum?
As far as my patriotism goes, in the spirit of the 4th of July, I'll give you this. America is not perfect, but it is the best game in town. There were mistakes made in the past. That's life. Get the (*)(*)(*)(*) over it.
The fact that forums like this exist where little whiny (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)es can bash America and the government day after day and not result in the forum being shut down or said whiny (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)es being hunted down by jack-booted thugs and thrown in a prison somewhere is a testament to what a great country the United States of America is.
Do you think if the government was really controlling everything and any of this anti-government 9/11 BS was anywhere close to the truth that it would be allowed to stand? How many anti-government websites are there in China . . . Iran . . . Afghanistan?
The only thing this thread proves is what has been written here again and again.
To some people . . . EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. Everything.
To which I add my own observation . . .
If you look for a conspiracy in everything you see, you will find a conspiracy everywhere you look.
What might be a more interesting discussion is how some people came to have this distrustful, cynical view of America. SOME people like the letsroll crowd just seem paranoid and crazy. Jango seems like a fairly clear thinker, but I'm guessing something happened in his past to make him really pissed at and distrustful of governmental authority.
So if I understand this correctly, the OP was intended to identify several members of this forum as so chauvinistic as to approve of all military actions the US has ever engaged in, regardless of the political considerations or provocations involved.
Nope. It is the contention of the OP that all military engagements are partially or fully due to false flag operations, thus proving 9/11 was also a false flag operation. The vagueness of the OP was by design to try and trip up people who aren't playing his game.
More like baiting you to respond, and then complaining to have you banned when you DO respond, and then complain that you ignore their posts after they attack in groups or successfully ban you. It's the game of paid "official" propagandists. Make no mistake.
More bull(*)(*)(*)(*) claims from RWAF. I don't think I've ever seen someone so bitter about getting his wrist slapped for breaking the rules. I've gotten warnings before and even banned. I didn't cry about it and make all kinds of allegations like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum. What a joke!!!!
Just calling it as I see it friend. Shills run the place...not much I can do about that, is there?
Just calling it as I see it friend. Shills run the place...not much I can do about that, is there?
World War I - Way before my time.
World War II - Also way before my time.
Korean War - Again, happened before I was born.
Vietnam War - I probably would have gone to serve there, but they wouldn't let me out of grade school.
Bay of Pigs Invasion - JFK had his mind on the poon-tang, and took his eye off the ball. A monumental (*)(*)(*)(*)-up from the top all the way to the bottom. In my opinion.
Grenada (83) - A really (*)(*)(*)(*)ty car by Ford. I can't believe they sold so many units.
Panama (89) - One of Van Halen's most popular songs, but it never really did much for me. To each their own, I guess.
Persian Gulf War - I served in the Army during this war. Flew helicopters, OH-58D's to be exact. We brought everybody home that we took down there. I guess that's something.
Afghanistan War - I got out of the Active Army by this time, and missed this cluster-(*)(*)(*)(*). Hate that I lost some friends over there.
Iraq War - Same story. Lost some good friends there.
It's not over, by the way.
We still have over 200 uniformed soldiers in Iraq, and somewhere between 16 thousand and 17 thousand US contractors and government servants working there.
The US uniformed soldiers are still conducting Opns there, only they are based out of Kuwait, and they conduct operations cross-border. Sleeping at night in Kuwait. It's bull(*)(*)(*)(*).
It's a shell game.
Don't let anybody in Washington tell you any different.
Take responsibility for your own actions. The only person you have to blame is yourself.
You seem to know a thing or two about history, so it would follow that you understand the importance of the terms I used. Denying the importance is being dishonest.
Fine. You don't like my interpretation, then answer post #1.
'My GOAL' is to see how 'you' US military history.
For I have a hypothesis that most of you are just under the covers in that regard as you are in 9/11. But if I am able to persuade you otherwise...who knows.
Like I said, this is a member participation thread.
Wow...you uh, uh, got pretty close there Dave. In case you forgot, Americans have Free Speech. I have worn the uniform and taken the oath and defended our Constitutional Rights. I have a right to criticize the government. It is one of our duties. I love my country and want to see it return to glory. I would be considered an Anti-American because I generally oppose the policies of the government. And yes, I am distrustful of our government. There are times I do trust though. But there are times I certainly don't. Depends on the situation, context, players, etc.
No. I've been exposed to a lot of US History over the last few years that has redefined the way I look at things. I don't just look at things from 'our' point-of-view either. Hence the phrase, "terrorism is a subjective term."
Separate names with a comma.