Discussion in '9/11' started by Jango, Jun 29, 2012.
Thanks again man. No place for me on the team? That's hardly fair.
No, I'm sure the 'laser beams from space' crew you hang with have plenty of room.
...or I could just hang out with you at airports 24/7.
I don't 'hang out' at airports. I have a job that requires travel.
Was that meant to be an insult?
Would I insult you? Shame on you for thinking such a ridiculous thing.
"Exceptionalism"? This sounds disturbing, but maybe I'm making assumptions. What exactly do you mean by those things?
American exceptionalism = the belief that we're special as a people, unique as a state, and have the right, authority, and mission to spread liberty and democracy throughout the world and thus do not need to conform to the norms of society and its general principles.
American patriotism = well, what is patriotism? Patriotism is devotion to a nation. So it follows that American patriotism is devotion to America.
American nationalism = well, what is nationalism? Nationalism is a strong identification with a nation. In other words, where you say you're from. So it follows that American nationalism is a strong identification with America.
The norms of society are racism, sexism, violence, and oppression. Is that what we need to conform to? Do we need to conform to the genocide in Africa? Do we need to conform to the practice of forced abortion on China? Do we need to conform to the totalitarianism of north Korea? When did liberals forget what classic liberalism is all about?
The problem is, which is easy to see, is that our own backyard has those problems. What platform can we as a nation really stand upon and lecture others? It hasn't even been a hundred years since women could start voting in America. Sexism is still an issue in America - women are not paid or promoted the same as men. We know racism is alive and well. Violence has found new pathways in certain areas of the US. And people are oppressed in America. Yet we point our fingers, play games, and spread propaganda about other countries and their misfortunes. Talk about hypocrisy. Like our 1054 nuclear tests and 2 live drops. We've detonated 1056 nuclear bombs but are going to take things with Iran to the point of War? How do we have a leg to stand on here? These are the things that grind my gears.
Sorry, this is delusional arrogance. NO ONE is that special, and definitely not the USA. What you are describing is a grandiose delusion. Read this wikipedia entry:
Grandiose delusion or delusions of grandeur is principally a subtype of delusional disorder (GD) that can occur as a wide range of mental illness, including in two thirds of those in manic state of bipolar disorder, half those with schizophrenia and a substantial portion of those with substance abuse disorders. GDs are characterized by fantastical beliefs that one is famous, omnipotent, wealthy, or otherwise very powerful. The delusions are generally fantastic and typically have a supernatural, science-fictional, or religious theme. There is a relative lack of research into GD, in comparison to persecutory delusions and auditory hallucinations. About 10% of healthy people experience grandiose thoughts but do not meet full criteria for a diagnosis of GD.
Grandiose delusions are distinct from grandiosity, in that the sufferer does not have insight into his loss of touch with reality.
Anyone who has lost contact with reality to this extent needs help.
Which society? Which principles? If you're referring to assumed norms in the west, you are advocating hypocrisy. If you are saying you as an American get to do whatever you want and believe you are entitled to escape responsibility, well that's basic immaturity.
The rest is logical, from strict definitions. But when you go out of your way to bundle them with a description of hawkish expansionism the *****[dodging Godwin] would envy, you are painting a scary world view.
Assuming this isn't some bizarre flamebait.
I doubt Jango is a liberal. I'M a liberal (liberal, NOT libertarian) and to me this screed of Jango's is nothing short of bizarro. And then some. There are hawkish republicans with less arrogance and entitlement....not many, but still.
Of course American exceptionalism is delusional, thank you for agreeing with me.
Why is it 'delusional'?
I have some thoughts already in post #84. Furthermore, we are a young country. Idealistic. Revolutionary. We are arrogant. We make as many mistakes and gaffes and boo-boos and oh-(*)(*)(*)(*)s and "I did not have sexual relations with that woman," as everyone else does, but it is because of things like our money, power, and military that allow us to do things in a manner to our liking, and make us look like the biggest hypocrites in the world as a result. We *are* supposed to be *different*. America is the freest country ever. I'd call that an experiment. But look at our *own* backyard. It is hardly in order. Look at its history. There has been progress, but all of that pain, agony, and death. In America. As well caused by America. We've lost our way. Though to be completely honest, we never really had a way to begin with. For you see, the problem itself is that man cannot co-exist with one another in close harmony without conflict. There has always been conflict. When we do nothing but use our military, using the phrase 'American exceptionalism' becomes hypocrisy and a propaganda piece, really. We're spreading liberty and freedom by blowing the mothers(*)(*)(*)(*)ers to kingdomcum. It's delusional.
You are not making sense. If you believe it's delusional, then why are you post like you're proud of it?
"My sin, my American patriotism, nationalism, and exceptionalism though, keeps me focused on my own homeland, and its problems - current, past, and future. There are a lot of them and many are repeated, which is why hand-wringing in the form of a jiu jitsu wrist takedown is needed to get the attention of the masses and powers-that-be."
You're also contradicting yourself in your explanations. On one hand this is supposed to be part of your "focus on my homeland". On the other hand, you describe this exceptionalism as an excuse to do whatever you want, where ever you want.
Which is it? And why are you proud of something you admit is delusional?
I suspect you're wasting everyone's time.
Look up 'exceptionalism' and 'American excetionalism'.
All wars are evil.
Separate names with a comma.