WA florist who is being sued by the state for her religion files countersuit

Did you think I cared about your opinion? That's amusing.

Amazing this has to be spelled out for you. If all humans react the exact same way to sexual stimuli by preparing the body for a process that requires heterosexual sexual contact it should be pretty obvious even to you that its a genetic reaction. BTW, my example covered both sexes not men who shave. LOL Pathetic.

Now please, dazzle me with your "evidence" that homosexuality is genetic.

And please, don't waste my time with the fruit fly study, the twin study or any other junk science that cannot prove homosexuality to be genetic. "Could be" "could lead to" or "possibly" is not something to base a factual conclusion on. fyi.

 

How is ANY of that relevant to whether gays should be allowed to marry etc etc? That is my point.

Oh that is right it is NOT relevant. Who gives a (*)(*)(*)(*) if some guy loves another guy ? Or has sex with him? It's no more your business than it is my business if you have guns, etc e

Once again, I don't understand how some of you numbskulls can't figure this out. SOME on both sides want it both ways. Either we're free , or we are not.

Let gays be gay if they wish, let business owners refuse to do business with them if they wish

 

The shop sells flowers, not tomato plants. Anybody who wants to buy flowers in a public business should be allowed to do so. Doesn't make any difference if they are going to go home and place them on a sacrificial bull frog that will have it's guts eaten for the Devil. It's not the shops duty to pass judgement on their customers, just provide the product or service they advertise. If you cannot serve the public, then don't start a public business.

 

Just because a business sells to the public does NOT make it a public business.

Only a simpleton doesn't understand this concept.

If you own a home, you are using public resources of one sort or another. Does that mean the government should be able to force you to take in the homeless or some such? Of course not.

It's a matter of law that businesses can reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. We own a family business. Have a sign right on the wall that says so . There is NO question that this is legal. The ONLY question is "are there certain groups that the government should be able to tell you that you must service?"

The obvious answer is no, but our stupid government has insisted on doing so anyway.

 

on point A: please don't insult

on point B: I absolutely agree but sadly, the rights of the individual are being trampled upon in the name of protecting the feelings of homosexuals.

When we get to the point that people can refuse to serve others for whatever reason they wish then we've reached equilibrium.

 

They sell flowers. If the customer isn't doing anything illegal with the flowers, it's really none of the owner of the shops business. You can't use your religion to discriminate, any more than you can refuse service to a police officer because he is a police officer, or republican for being a republican, or a hippie for being a hippie, or a left handed person for not being right.

Religion doesn't make you the overseer of everybody else, or give you the right to discriminate.

I do admit that the government is too often used as the answer to everything but if you have a business license and offer a product or a service, you cannot discriminate, and if you do, you should be treated like anybody else who discriminates according to the law, and should at minimum be fined and/or lose your license.

 

A) you have my apologies

B) I agree with you. I just don't see any reason to get side tracked into a "its not natural " argument. Because its irrelevant , a person who believes in actual freedom wouldn't care if it was natural or not, all they would care about is that the person who actually owns the property should have the right, not the person who wants to buy the property from the owner.

 

Actually, as Ive already stated before, as a business owner you CAN discriminate, expect against certain protected classes. Do you really not understand that?

Let's assume you own a buffet restaurant and some fat family comes in and you don't want to serve them bc they are fat, do you know that legally you don't have to? But if a black family comes in and you don't want to serve them b/c they are black, TOUGH? How is that right?

I

 

Don't be fooled by this BS. The people who say, the business can discriminate against anybody they want for any reason will be the first people crying foul when they are the discriminated party. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

 

Because it blows away the ridiculous attempt to equate behavior to race which your side IS doing.

Then use another baker. Don't force someone to accept your behavior.

This isn't about gays doing their own thing. I could care less. This is about FORCING others to accept that behavior. Starting to get the difference now?

 

you betcha. Individual rights seem to be the first to fall victim once a special interest group lobbies DC. We hear all about the hurt feelings and injustices of such and that is good enough reason to trample upon the rights of others.

My rights end at my nose, your rights begin at your fist. It's really quite a simple thing to comprehend. If getting my flowers at your wedding was all that important, and I said no, then increase the money offered and maybe I'll change my mind. If I don't, then go down the street to the next florist or visit ftd.com

 

That WOULD be hypocrisy, and one that I wouldn't be guilty of , and most people wouldn't either I work hard for my money, I certainly don't wish to spend it at a business that doesn't want to do business with me.

 

Um, what?

Again, what? I am PRO allowing businesses to discriminate

Obviously you could care less, because you care a great deal. Now as for your silly assertion that selling flowers to a gay is accepting their behavior, that's just silly. It isn't , but that doesn't change the fact that a person ought have a right to refuse service to anyone.

See how I don't make silly comments but still manage to defend individual rights?

 

we have a winner

As I stated when the issue first arose, if the homosexual market was large enough I'd hang 12 rainbow flags outside of my business. If the guy down the street didn't like gay sex and would not sell to them, then I would be more than happy to take their money. I don't care what any 2, 3 or more consenting adults do in their bedroom, if they have the cash, I'll sell them my product. I'm a capitalist pig and proud of it.

 

I have heard the 1 per customer rule, like anybody who can eat this 8 pound plate of food, can have it for free, but never again, or an all you can eat buffet having a 4-5 trip maximum, but if somebody refuses to serve a fat person for being fat, they will be eligible for a civil suit and if the court agrees they were discriminated against, you could lose big time almost every time.

http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-service

 

no doubt.

I'll relate a personal story.

Our family has an auto repair shop. Our area has a pretty significant Hispanic population, when they first started moving in say 10 years ao, none of the other auto repair shops in town wanted their business . My dad on the other hand, hired a young Hispanic kid and taught him to work on cars.

Today we have 90% of the Hispanic business in our county.

The other shops got what they chose to have, and we got what we chose to have.

The Hispanics get their cars worked on.

Everyone wins.

oh and certainly doing business with them doesn't mean we approve of illegal aliens. It simply means we approve of cash.

 

Um are you even paying attention? You have liberal morons all over this thread claiming this is exactly like what happened to blacks 50 years ago.

LOL Then why are you arguing with me?

Of course it is. If you force me to accept a customer I don't want to then you are forcing me to serve them against my will.

How do you keep missing this?

By that moronic line of thought ANY person no matter what their behavior or preference would be forced to accept business from anyone and an individual's right as a business owner to choose would be gone.

 

That's right, and fat isn't a protected class (although with it being recently labeled a disease that may change)

Regardless though, that law is unconstitutional, or rather it SHOULD be if a court would ever entertain such a case

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The ONLY thing I'm arguing with you about in this thread is your silly notion that you have to attack gays to defend your right to do business as you see fit. There is no such need.

 

How about the only grocery store for a 100 miles, which also happens to be the only gas station for 150 miles in any direction, or the utility company excluding you from service because of your political affiliation or because you smell funny, or because you have blue eyes. Stop and think about the implications, before you make snap judgements. If anybody can refuse you service for any reason what so ever, you could be run out of the country and lose everything you have worked for, or be forced into bankruptcy. There always isn't another viable option in some cases.

This case for example is purely spiteful/hateful and has nothing to do with God, just bigotry. God is not going to condemn you to hell for selling flowers to (*)(*)(*)(*). Stop acting so sanctimonious.

 

You know what? If I'm a homosexual and the only grocery store with 100 miles won't serve homosexuals, I'm opening a grocery store down the road.

As for the public utility , ,they are PUBLIC utilities and as such have different rights than a private business. I've never heard ANYONE suggest that the electric company should be able to shut off your lights if you're gay, just as an example.

 

Which is a lie. I never attacked gays. I attacked the notion that homosexuality is equal to race. You really need to read more carefully before you start arguing with someone.

 

It doesn't need to be a protected class. I posted the legal standard and people were sued back in the 60's and lost that bet. You don't have to be a protected class. If you discriminate you can be fined and or lose your license, as well as be sued in civil court for pain and suffering from your bigotry. Nothing in the constitution says the government must issue you a business license, there are rules that must be followed when serving the public.

Like many issues involving constitutional law, the law against discrimination in public accommodations is in a constant state of change. Some argue that anti-discrimination laws in matters of public accommodations create a conflict between the ideal of equality and individual rights. Does the guaranteed right to public access mean the business owner's private right to exclude is violated? For the most part, courts have decided that the constitutional interest in providing equal access to public accommodations outweighs the individual liberties of any business owner involved.

 

No matter how you word it, you are attacking gays my friend.

There is no need to do so. Someone wants to equate sexuality to race? Here's my answer . So what , I also believe that a man should be able to refuse service to a black if he'd like to. because it is HIS business.

See, no reason to even discuss gay at all. It should be completely irrelevant to the discussion. The central question is "do we have a right to do with our businesses as we please?"

 

As I thought you are being disingenuous and dishonest. Pretty good chance if that is the only grocery store and they discriminate against anybody at will, what ever they dislike will also be disliked by the rest of the bigots in the community, and it is very doubtful if they support discrimination such as that, you won't be issued a business license anyway, and if for some unknown reason you obtain one, it will be so they can get pleasure by running you and your business into the ground. The first fire marshal visit will most likely be your last day in business anyway.

Public utilities are ran by people and not all utility companies are public, just businesses open to the public. In any case if the manager doesn't like you, that is all it takes to discriminate against you in this society where anybody can be discriminated against. Nice try though.

 

"the only grocery store for 100 miles" would tend to be in very rural areas. And, with only 3.4% of adults engaging in non traditional sex the chances of there being those who deviate is very slim. Also, as a black man, you can tell that I'm black when I enter a store; can you tell if I sleep with men or women?