We have a responsibility on this Forum to do our part, however small, to stop White Supremacists

I've already discussed that with you. Scroll back.

I'm not interested in you attempting to reinvent the wheel to hide from what has been said. Why do you think racism has gone through the roof on here? To what extent can we blame right wingers who, rather than sneering at the absurdity of racist comment, instead spend their time tacitly supporting it (typically because they get to lefty moan)?

 

Children are routinely taken from parents charged with negligence, child abuse or other crimes. Surely you know that.

"Guards preside over the remote lock-down facilities, where detainees have little chance for contact with the outside world. Distressed mothers have staged multiple hunger strikes to protest conditions, one detainee attempted suicide, and lawyers have alleged that guards have sexually abused women. Human rights groups say the experience causes lasting trauma for families.

"Every single solitary right a parent has is taken away in detention — a mother can't discipline her child, feed her child, choose her child's medical care or education," Linda Brandmiller, an immigration attorney who has represented more than 100 mothers at Karnes, said. "The kids ask their mothers every day, 'Why are we here?' and they can't answer that fundamental question. My mothers have reported that their children's personalities have changed while detained."
VICE, The US Has Found a New Way to Keep Immigrant Families Locked Up, By Meredith Hoffman, September 21, 2015.
https://news.vice.com/article/the-us-has-found-a-new-way-to-keep-immigrant-families-locked-up

Are you endorsing Obama's immigration policy? Seriously?

 

Here is some more evidence of Obama's inhumane immigration police.

“It is intolerable that human trafficking — modern-day slavery — could occur in our own backyard,” said Senator Rob Portman, Republican of Ohio and the chairman of the subcommittee. “But what makes the Marion cases even more alarming is that a U.S. government agency was responsible for delivering some of the victims into the hands of their abusers.”

In addition to the Marion cases, the investigation found evidence that 13 other children had been trafficked after officials handed them over to adults who were supposed to care for them during their immigration proceedings. An additional 15 cases exhibited some signs of trafficking.

The report also said that it was unclear how many of the approximately 90,000 children the agency had placed in the past two years fell prey to traffickers, including sex traffickers, because it does not keep track of such cases."
THE NEW YORK TIMES, U.S. Placed Immigrant Children With Traffickers, Report Says, By Emmarie Huetteman, Jan. 28, 2016.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/...nt-children-with-traffickers-report-says.html

Do you think the NYT just made it up?

 

DESPERATION duly noted by posting the same FALLACIOUS bovine excrement over and over again in the vain hope of evading being held responsible for FAILING to substantiate your BOGUS allegation.[/QUOTE]


So, do you think Mark Leibovich is one of those awful right wingers?
You should tell that to the NYT.

 

That is why I gave you the link. There is a limit to the amount of LW environmental whacko nihilism I want to paste up. But here is that quote in context:

"The American lifestyle affords our citizens an incredible quality of life. However, our lifestyle is destroying the environment of our country. The decimation of the environment is creating a massive burden for future generations. Corporations are heading the destruction of our environment by shamelessly overharvesting resources. This has been a problem for decades. For example, this phenomenon is brilliantly portrayed in the decades old classic “The Lorax”. Water sheds around the country, especially in agricultural areas, are being depleted. Fresh water is being polluted from farming and oil drilling operations. Consumer culture is creating thousands of tons of unnecessary plastic waste and electronic waste, and recycling to help slow this down is almost non-existent. Urban sprawl creates inefficient cities which unnecessarily destroys millions of acres of land. We even use god knows how many trees worth of paper towels just wipe water off our hands. Everything I have seen and heard in my short life has led me to believe that the average American isn’t willing to change their lifestyle, even if the changes only cause a slight inconvenience. The government is unwilling to tackle these issues beyond empty promises since they are owned by corporations. Corporations that also like immigration because more people means a bigger market for their products. I just want to say that I love the people of this country, but *******n most of y’all are just too stubborn to change your lifestyle. So the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources. If we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can become more sustainable."
El Paso Killer’s Manifesto, Economic Reasons, 8/4/19.
https://media.8ch.net/file_store/7e...cedfb854dbdd7c3559b1c5afa0e15d63402d39934.pdf

 

Well, if someone were a genuine white supremacist, believing that only whites could advance human civilization, that is, tread upon the 'right way' path -- then you might be right.

White supremacists, in my experience, are either ignorant of, or explain away, the counter-examples from the past, which disprove white-European preeminence in cultural pursuits: Arab achievements, Indian achievements, Chinese achievements, Persian achievements, Mayan/Incan/Aztec achievements. But they cannot laugh off the fact that the Chinese are now visibly in the process of displacing the European/white position as humanity's leaders. There is still plenty of denial and looking the other way and excuses, but these become more and more hollow every year.

And yet, we don't see a corresponding growth in anti-Chinese animus. In fact, I know of a number of people who would definitely count as 'white supremacists' by most of the people on this forum, but who have Chinese or Indian or Muslim wives, or who have expressed great admiration for the culture of Japan.

Really, the division is between 'civilizationists', people who believe that mankind's cultural/social evolution over time, where it has occurred, has resulted in progressively better societies -- lots of things go into making 'better' but we can take average mortality rate as a quick proxy for them all -- and those who insist that all cultures are equal.

The civilizationists (and, of course, we're all civilizationists when no one is looking and we don't have to prove our progressive anti-racist credentials) can be further divided into those who believe that the superior, better civilizations are due to some innate, permanent, quality of those who created them -- on the one hand -- and those who see a large role for historic accident, geography, climate in creating the conditions in which the superior civilizations could flourish -- on the other. The latter may not rule out some 'inherent' quality -- nowadays it's called 'genetics' -- but they don't see it as a single-factor permanent quality. Nor do they believe it's necessarily permanent.

Now very few people know much about anthropology, history, geography, genetics. They just see that it's much nicer to live in Italy or Norway or the US or Australia, than in South Africa (since liberation), the Congo, El Salvador, or Mexico. They probably don't have an elaborated reason for their belief, of any sort. If they're non-white, they just accept it, and perhaps hope that things will change, or watch with pleasure the positive changes that are taking place, depending on their 'race'. They probably are aware of the contribution of whites to keeping their ancestors backward -- the whites who destroyed nascent civilizations in the Americas, the whites who ruined the Indian textile industry, the whites who sacked the Summer Palace.

If they're white, they just take it for granted. These are your rank-and-file 'white supremacists'. They don't have an elaborate racialist explanation for why their societies are superior to others, much less any explanation (or even awareness) of how their societies are now being surpassed by the Chinese. But they're damned if they're going to pretend to believe a bunch of horse manure of the sort that the liberal intelligentsia pretends to believe. And it's little consolation to them that the liberals don't really believe it either.

 

He also makes it clear that he did not initially target Hispanics, and adds this:

“Statistically, millions of migrants have returned to their home countries to reunite with the family they lost contact with when they moved to America. They come here as economic immigrants, not for asylum reasons. This is an encouraging sign that the Hispanic population is willing to return to their home countries if given the right incentive. An incentive that myself and many other patriotic Americans will provide.”
El Paso Killer’s Manifesto, Economic Reasons, 8/4/19.
https://media.8ch.net/file_store/7e...cedfb854dbdd7c3559b1c5afa0e15d63402d39934.pdf

Where do you think he got that idea?

The shooter is an LW environmental extremist. His manifesto is not subtle. If your point is that a Nazi could also have written his manifesto - I pointed that out in my first post about the Shooter's screed.

Hence my reference to Heidegger who may well have inspired this shooter. He has inspired much of the modern progressive movement.

 

When I try to get Lefties to define what they mean by "racism", I never get a coherent response. We might all agree on a conventional abstract definition, but then the argument becomes, to whom on this forum does that definition apply? Does referring to the high Black crime rate, make you a 'white supremacist'?

Over the last few months, I've seen a small number of people appear who definitely fit that description: one fellow who was an admitted 'fascist', who avowed that when his tendency began to grow, they would follow Gregor Strasser rather than Hitler with respect to their domestic program. Obviously a serious man. Most white supremacists would never have heard of Strasser.

There was another fellow -- maybe on another forum, I'm not sure -- who was a white supremacist. A genial chap, but totally ignorant of all the research in the field that he thought backed up his views on race and IQ -- well, almost everyone on this forum is equally ignorant, so nothing startling there. No one else would or could take him on, but I debated him, pointing out the big increase in the mean IQ of Ireland in a very short time, not explainable on genetic grounds but clearly a result of that country's economic and social growth. And pointed out the number of civilizations that have flourished, making advances in science and mathematics and engineering, which have then fallen into backwardness. Not a result of a change of genes, but of something in the environment. He just kept reiterating his beliefs, without addressing the evidence. Okay, nothing new here. Finally he ended the back-and-forth with the triumphant question, 'Why don't you move to a Black neighborhood then?' It's the ignorant white supremacist equivalent to the left shouting 'racism/white supremacy, racism, white supremacy' over and over and over.

I ask things like, does it make you a racist to feel relieved to find it's white young men, rather than Black, walking behind you at night. I've only had one person answer that, and he said 'yes'. Everyone else dodges it.
I ask if it makes you a racist for believing that one racial group can be superior in intelligence to another, in part for genetic reasons. Again, only one person I've asked that to replied, 'yes'. Everyone else dodges it.

It's like hearing politicians being interviewed about whether they will raise taxes. "Taxes are necessary for the maintenance of civilization. Yet excessive taxes become a burden on society." Yes but will you raise taxes. "There is a lot of government waste. We will do everything in our power to discover and root it out, and redirect that tax money to where it's really needed." Yes, but will you raise taxes. "My party has a clear record on ..." And at that point you know you're dealing with a slipper con-man, and you twirl the dial.

The problem is clear: for Leftists of all sorts, the empirical questions about racial differences are inextricable from their (admirable) moral committment to equal treatment and fairness. The latter is a moral issue, quite rightly not subject to empirical verification. But they are unable to separate the moral from the empirical. (There are people on the Left who can, like James Flynn, but they are rare.) They have essentially a religious view of the world -- it's what made the Church condemn Galileo -- they thought his attack on geocentrism was an attack on morality.

I've made a contribution on this question here.

 

Yikes! Heidegger! I think it's an overstatement to say that he has inspired much of the modern progressive movement, at least not directly (come on -- how many of the shrieking mobs of anti-Fa and 'safe space' kiddies attacking conservative speakers could even understand a page of Being and Time? but you can certainly see his influence on the post-modernist academics -- the 'disappointed academic Left' as I think Alan Sokal called them. But they're fading away now, I think, as the much more satisfying mania of grievance and identity politics takes over.

 

Red herring for vocab foliage (of no intellectual merit at all). Its again asking for repetition. We have already referred to the nature of the white supremacist. What annoys me is that you can't just say the obvious: white supremacists are cretinous. You instead insist on a diatribe ultimately about trying to belittle the curse.

If you want to celebrate racism then be more honest about it. Take your drivel "does it make you a racist to feel relieved to find it's white young men, rather than Black, walking behind you at night". Its ponce and prance of course. But why haven't you referred to how blacks are more likely to be discriminated against and therefore more likely, ceteris paribus, to find crime attractive? Are you so selective in your application of empirical evidence? Are you insistent on the same spurious relationship so loved by the white supremacist?

 

Do you want to raise taxes? Yes or no? "Taxes are necessary, but should not be raised unnecessarily" and on and on.
Does environment influence behavior? Sure, for young Black males, and for white supremacists as well. Whoa, tell me something new.
Discrimination turns you to violent crime? So watch out for those Japanese and Chinese muggers and Jewish robbers!
As for 'wanting to celebrate racism' ... these disgusting, filthy, dishonest charges, outright lies knowingly made, have no effect on me. I have a personal record of taking action against racism, at personal risk, starting 60 years ago, which no armchair eccentric of slimey morals and inadequate intellectual capacity could match by one hundredth.

 

How is it context if it is from a different section? You still avoid the part you selectively left out.

 

Couldn't someone be both an environmental doomster, AND be set off by Mr Trump's criminally careless use of words?

 

Give me an example of such.

 

An unimaginative dodge (but at least you didn't type word after word for no apparent reason). Where are your efforts to put the racists in their place? Where is your righteous reaction against their bile? Answer the questions or stop pretending.

 

He said, very specifically, that the Christchurch shooter's manifesto changed his target to Hispanic people. Before that who knows what his target was? Probably a synagogue like the Pittsburgh shooter. But saying he was "progressive" is sickening.

 

You say that, then continue to post a ton of other cherry picked pieces of the manifesto. And each time you provide a link to 8chan, which is pretty sketchy.

 

Congratulations!

Your ongoing FAILURE to substantiate your utterly BOGUS allegation about Obama's policies combined the generally vapid content of your posts has DISQUALIFIED you from any further meaningful interaction as far as I am concerned.

Have a nice life!

 

WRONG again!

The defeated Southern racists started the KKK right after they LOST the Civil War and they abandoned the DP and joined the GOP after the Civil Rights Act was passed a 100 years later.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=0f3a7e1ce9094014b64456b322854404

 

Yet another vapid FAILURE of whataboutism with ZERO CREDIBLE SUBSTANTIATON of your BOVINE EXCREMENT allegation about Obama!

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

Still pushing your DEBUNKED STRAWMAN fallacy?

 

Learn how to do what?

 

Fix a country

 

Why would any intelligent progressive defend the odious Obama immigration policy?
Even The Nation, VICE, and here - The Guardian have denounced Obama's cruel treatment of immigrants and their children.

"But instead, on Tuesday the White House requested $3.7bn in additional funding to launch a border "surge" to facilitate the legal process for the child migrants – with the ultimate aim of expediting deportations. And Obama has even suggested making these children easier to deport by altering existing laws that provide special protections and legal reprieve for children crossing the border from Central America. This, many politicians argue, will send a message that the United States is a "nation of laws", in order to somehow deter other families from sending their children here in desperation."

THE GUARDIAN, Obama's new plan for detained migrant children militarizes immigration policy, By Michelle Chen, Wed 9 Jul 20.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...an-deport-migrant-children-immigration-policy

Read and weep - for the children.

 

In fact, I have provided you with comprehensive proof of just how cruel the Obama administration's treatment of migrant families really was. Progressive sources like The NYT, The Nation, Vice, and The Guardian have all reported on Obama's heartless abuse of families and children crossing our borders. Here is some more truth from The Guardian:

"Instead of helping resolve this historical injustice, Obama's main response is to demand more funding for border enforcement and to seek legal tweaks to facilitate the deportation of children. This extends the administration's trend of mass detention and deportation of undocumented immigrants – now hovering at a record 2m "removals" – and marks a regression from earlier executive measures to grant temporary deportation reprieves to undocumented youth."
THE GUARDIAN, Obama's new plan for detained migrant children militarizes immigration policy, By Michelle Chen, Wed 9 Jul 20.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...an-deport-migrant-children-immigration-policy

Why do you continue to defend the indefensible?