You've only accused me of 'dodging' one question. The fact that you cannot confirm is VERY telling. You know perfectly well that I answered that question.
On the concept of rape? Of course. On individuals accused of rape? No, that's the courts job. In our society people have the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. But then that takes us to what would probably have been your next question i.e what if it was I or someone I know who was (allegedly) raped? However all that does is circle us around back to the start of this specific discussion i.e. the point I made in my original post about having personal knowledge of the individual and the specific facts and circumstances. If the victim or accused was someone I knew presumably then I would be aware of those facts and circumstances and therefore in a better position to make a judgement, assuming I wanted to do so.
I've asked you two that you've been dodging. So, how is choosing an abortion after a forced pregnancy (rape) not a matter of what happens to my body is within my control and mine alone? It is good that you are against 99% of abortions. How is the fetus, that is the product of a rape, any less an innocent life form than any other unwanted pregnancy?
FoxHastings said: ↑ LOL, are you going to name every crime ever committed? What's your non-existent point? What are you trying to avoid THIS time ? What's your non-existent point? What are you trying to avoid THIS time ?
As you can see, my question was "do you pass judgement on rapists?" My question was NOT do you pass judgement on ACCUSED rapists. So try answering again.
If they been found guilty in a court of law AND for whatever reason I've aware of the specific case AND I have the time in passing to make a judgment then (to the extent my judgement matters) yes. But there are hundreds if not thousands of cases of violent crime reported every week in the media, including cases of rape. Which is why I noted that while it's possible object to the concept of a particular crime in principal it's not possible to make judgements about specific cases without being aware of the details. For the rest - you asked about judging rapists, I simply clarified there was a distinction between accusation and fact which often gets overlooked on forums like this when particularly violent or offensive crimes are discussed.
Why the hell would you need to know the specifics of the rape case? Could there seriously be a detail that would make the rape JUSTIFIED?
I have not been "dodging" them, I fully intend on answering them and indeed I look forward to it. I have simply been waiting for you to first admit that I answered the below question:
Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. What I meant was that I don't usually follow such cases and so aren't aware of them. When I am my 'judgement' usually involves me running through the facts as reported and seeing if I think the penalty was too light or too harsh, although honestly off the top of my head I can't recall one where I might thought the penalty too harsh. If I had to do a survey I'd guess that personally it would go 50/50, either the Judge got it about right or else the judge was a bit soft.
I think I’ve been patient with your multiple evasions. You’ve posted thirteen times without answering, but maybe I’ve enjoyed watching you squirm. You deny dodging, which is a falsehood and trying to to do your best not to answer. I think your strategy is to wear me down with demands until I won’t give you an answer and then you will throw up your hands and claim “Looks like everyone is out! I guess my job is done once again! Until next time liberals!” You answered “how is choosing an abortion after a forced pregnancy not a matter of self-determination of a human being over her own body?” with, it was. You must have been unaware “self-determination of a human being over her own body” is an accepted definition of bodily autonomy and you then went into denial. You were denying her decision was a matter of bodily autonomy. Okay, I changed the question to your definition of bodily autonomy and still get evasions.
I think I've been patient with you accusing me of not answering your first question and then not acknowledging that you were wrong when I confronted you with it. Wear you down with "demands?" Oh, so you're not demanding that I answer those two questions? "You answered." Oh, so I DID answer that question didn't I! How has it taken you THIS long to realise that? You said that I "refused to answer" that question. I have already said that there is no formalised definition of bodily autonomy. It's "an accepted definition of bodily autonomy?" Accepted by who? Yes, because she is not in control of her body during the abortion. Some person, usually a MAN, is digging around inside of her body. And you call that "bodily autonomy?" Yeah right!
You never watch the news or read a newspaper? You keep getting confused! When the hell did I talk about whether the penalty was too light or too harsh? I asked you if you pass judgement on the RAPIST! Not the JUDGE!
Sorry now your simply being facetious. Of course I read the news, I just don't scour it intently for reports on sexual assault cases! Perhaps you might, most people don't. Hence my comment that I don't usually 'follow' such cases but when I read about one I note the facts as reported including the sentence (if there is one) and THEN I make my judgement. And in circumstances where an offender has not been identified? I have empathy for the victims, anger at the unknown assailant and a desire to see them caught so that society can judge him or her. With respect you need to read my posts more carefully. I specifically said I was judging the sentence handed out i.e the punishment being imposed on the rapist for their conduct. In other words does the punishment fit the crime? What other way is there of judging someone/anyone who has committed a crime? What do you do?
Yes I know what you said, but I asked you if you pass judgement on the RAPIST! Not the JUDGE! And then you responded with that you are judging the sentence handed out. Is there a reason why you were unable to respond to what I was ACTUALLY asking? Maybe you can in your next reply. You could just simply say that the rapist is a piece of human waste who deserves to rot in jail.
Oh dear God. Who is this rapist you keep wanting me to 'judge'. You tell me. You keep asking the same question and I keep answering it 'I judge, when I judge on the basis of the facts I have before me.' I've already said I judge the offense of rape per se as morally reprehensible but apparently that answer wasn't good enough for you. No, I apparently instead I have to judge 'the rapist' and nowhere did I ever say rapists don't deserve to go to jail. So can you please get over this fixation you have and move on.
Because you brought up the idea that we shouldn't judge the thief stealing food. So I wanted to see what other crimes you apply that standard to. It seems not rape.
And the evasions continue...."I have not been "dodging" them, I fully intend on answering them and indeed I look forward to it." You were anxious to answer them earlier, was that a lie? How is choosing an abortion after a forced pregnancy not "a matter of what happens to my body is within my control and mine alone"? The woman, by the way, is in control "of what happens" to her body because she is choosing to take a pill or undergo a medical procedure. And How is the fetus, that is the product of a rape, any less an innocent life form than in any other unwanted pregnancy?
I NEVER said we shouldn't judge a thief for stealing food. In fact quite clearly in post 4169 I stated that; "It depends on why the poor 'man' is poor. Is he poor as a result of his own bad decisions and choices or is he poor due to events largely beyond his control? ' There's your potential basis for 'judgement' right there! So one more time, read my posts carefully before making allegations about what I do and do not believe because so far you don't seem to be even trying! I don't know if your deliberately choosing to misrepresent my position of course but if not your certainly doing a very good job of impersonation someone who is. This is not the first time you've claimed I've said something that I haven't.
I already said that I am waiting on you to admit that you were wrong in saying that I did not answer the first question.
No acknowledgment that you were wrong I see. (Now not surprising.) As I said from the beginning there's moral relatively involved in your question. Whats the worse crime? To steal food to feed a starving child or to deny that child food even though you could provide but won't because 'it's not your problem'? Theft is always theft but which of the situations above is the greater evil? And once again we' re back to knowing the specific facts and circumstances that are relevant before passing judgement. And that's true whether its someone who has allegedly committed theft or someone who has gotten an abortion or whatever else you were planning to raise in your next 'deep' question. I'm also tired of going round in circles with you which is whats happening. In fact it's becoming pretty obvious that we're going to keep doing round and round until such time as you somehow magically extract an answer from me that you seem to want but I'm not giving. (Not going to happen BTW.) It's becoming tedious and I have better things to do so with my day so TTFN.
Been there done that After a while you just get sick and tired of chasing the same metaphorical monkey around the same damn palm tree it goes beyond debate and edges into attention seeking
And yet you still randomly engage with me from time to time! Before INSTANTLY giving up when I reply!
