What does Text History and Tradition look like?

Here's a fun thread for all history buffs.

What weapons and/or features were available at the time of the Founding, and thus are per se protected weapons and/or features?

I'll start:


Detachable shoulder stocks, spring loaded bayonets, on a pistol firing a shotgun style load.

 

If you had the means, you could own a fully functioning ship of the line. Man the cannons, hoist the sails, get your letter of marque, and get to sailing, ye scurvy dog, ye!

 

Then all you need is a letter of mark from a Governor.

 

I'm trying to remember the name of the weapon or the inventor, but it was colonial America and a guy made a special musket with special ammunition that held a bunch of charges in one barrel, and they would fire one after another, with the first bullet igniting and firing the second and so on down to the last. It was basically the pre-electricity version of the 'metal storm'. It was in the 1600s or 1700s.

 

a roman candle repeater

 

Yes, thank you.


The Belton Fusil and Superposed Flintlocks
"The Belton "Roman candle" fusil is the first known repeating firearm invented in American. Joseph Belton's repeating fusil design employed superimposed loads that fired in succession after a single pull of the trigger using a chained charge much like a Roman candle. Joseph Belton, an inventor and gunsmith from Benjamin Franklin’s hometown of Philadelphia, not only produced his innovative firearm for the public, he petitioned the Continental Congress during the American Revolution in hopes of a largescale military contract.

The Belton repeater, a high capacity assault flintlock studied by the Continental Army.

In 1776, Belton wrote to Congress claiming he’d designed a way to make a musket discharge up to eight rounds in three seconds. Benjamin Franklin wrote to George Washington in support of the idea, and Washington initially commissioned 100 of Belton’s rapid-fire muskets for the Continental Army. A disagreement over money ultimately canceled the proposal, as Belton was convinced his invention was worth a far higher sum than the fledging American government could afford. Belton continued to sell his guns to the public, and his inquires with the Continental Congress have left a detailed written account of how America's founders not only knew about repeating weapon technology but debated financing its mass production."

Assault weapons existed before America's 2nd Amendment was written. | Rock Island Auction

The first time I read about it, it said there was a long-gun version that held far more rounds. Cant find it tho.

 

You're looking at it the wrong way.

In or around 1791, what, if any, weapons were forbidden, by law, to the people?

 

None. It didn't work like that.

However: Pointing out things that were in common use for lawful purpose shows things that per se were protected.

 

Of course they are.

 

So in addition to short barrel shotguns... Many gun banners also are not aware of the fact that there were several repeating arms predating the second amendment.

So much for the old.... The second amendment only covers single shot muskets

 

And there was also the puckle gun which was a repeating flintlock Big bore musket and the style of a revolver which was pretty much a small cannon

 

Several?


Multi-shot firearms in existence at ratification:
Belton repeating flintlock, 1777
The Drehling 8-shot, matchlock revolver, circa 1580.
German oval-bore, .67-calibre rifle that fired 16 stacked charges of powder and ball in a rapid "Roman candle" fashion, circa 1600 (manufacturer/inventor unknown).
1625 German-commissioned, breech loading wheellock, with metal cartridges.
The six-or-twelve shot, 17th century, Kalthoff Repeaters.
Lorenzoni and Cookson Flintlock Repeating Pistols, in 7-shot and 9-shot versions, circa 1680.
The Cookson Repeating Rifle (Lorenzoni System), circa 1680: a 12 shot, lever-action breech-loading, repeating flintlock.
The Puckle gun, circa 1718, a tripod-mounted, single-barreled flintlock weapon fitted with a multi-shot revolving cylinder, designed for shipboard use to prevent boarding. Could hold 11 preloaded rounds in a cylinder, and advertised to "fire 63 shots in 7 minutes."
Griffin Breech-loading Flintlock Musket, 1740
I Pendrill Flintlock Breech-loading Rifle, 1760.
Bunney of London four Barreled "Duck's Foot" Flintlock Pistol, 1780.
Flemish 3-barrel, tap-action, .54 bore pistol, 1780.
The rapid-fire, Ferguson Rifle, breech-load flintlock, patented 1777, which improved upon the breech-loading rifle created and patented in 1721 by Isaac de la Chaumette
Girardoni Air Rifle, circa 1780: 22 round magazine, .46 caliber air rifle.

 

Only is you were privateering.

 

Okay all of this talk of being a merchant Mariner...
Now I have to post this

 

Black powder and lead could be owned by private citizen, with zero regulation. Powder and lead equated to ammunition.

Black powder could be used in pistols, muskets, rifles, cannon and explosive devices i.e. hand grenades, land mines, man-traps, etc.

 

That's one of my favorite areas of historical study. Have you listened to the radio traffic between Bernie Cooper, captain of the Arthur M. Anderson and the Coast Guard?

 

No I haven't but I do understand the event immortalized by the song took place on one of the Great lakes.

 

And black powder is really not all that difficult to make.

You need sulfur, carbon and potassium nitrate.

The carbon commonly comes in the form of wood charcoal and potassium nitrate can be had in almost its purest form from stump remover.

I hear back in the civil war they also extracted it from areas where people would frequently urinate.

 

It's great. From a historical perspective. Cooper reeeeally didn't want to go back out and look for the Fitzgerald.

 

Interesting... I'll have to watch that in it's entirety later

 

My father was a 1st mate with ASC when this happened, out on lake Huron. Knew most of the deck and engineering officers on the EF.
Consensus in the community is she his bottom in a trough and cracked the keel.

 

A guy I knew years ago knew Edmund Fitzgerald. IIRC he was chairman of the insurance company that owned the ship-his wife christened it. He apparently was in really bad shape-maybe heart attack, when he heard the ship was lost

 

Although it's not commonly considered covered under the Second Amendment, Ordinance seems to be perfectly legal. You can own a cannon in all 50 States.


But the OP's point is that the Bill of Rights only covers those items in use at the time of ratification, so that means telegraphs, microfiche, digital, or any computer or online writing or broadcasting would not be covered by the First Amendment. I guess under the Fourth Amendment even though cops still couldn't enter your home, they could bug your computer or phone without a warrant since, hey, the Founders didn't envision those inventions!

It's a dumb take but I've seen it before on this forum. I just wish people wouldn't spend so much time trying to figure out ways to rape the Bill of Rights.

 

gun banners hate the fact that their schemes essentially make them domestic (and in some cases foreign) enemies of the constitution so they try to weasel around the second amendment