what gun control do you support?

I don't see this in only Black/White. I support the Constitution (to include self-defense), but not everyone's interpretation of the same. (It's bit like 'religion'... except everyone has to live by these laws.)

I support our laws as they GENERALLY are, but I do want the changes that Congress rejected last week. I WILL fight for those.
Even so, I suspect A LOT MORE STATES are going to change their laws as a result.

Personally, philosophically (as I believe I often inferred), I would prefer that we do what Australia did; it's just a wish... it's not Constitutional for us to do what they did. And in a certain amount of time (50-70 years) after more senseless deaths and other tragedies, it would not shock me one iota if America did something very similar.

 

I disagree; take it to another thread.

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You are reported.

 

only the society YOU dream of. At what cost does this fantasy create? A slave state enforced through a police state?
This is nothing new, btw,,,,,,,,,,Legalism was practice in China over 3 thousand years ago.

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only the society YOU dream of. At what cost does this fantasy create? A slave state enforced through a police state?
This is nothing new, btw,,,,,,,,,,Legalism was practice in China over 3 thousand years ago.
One might get the impression that you're are a progressive lib, they were active then, too...............jes saying

 

If it comes to be, it won't all be MY choice. And all that slippery-slope, Chicken Little paranoia many are into, isn't going to deter my views on that.

 

it can serve two purposes, 1st it gives time for proper background checks to be performed...2nd many domestic murders or suicides are spur of the moment type events, a few days wait will give the person a couple days to cool off and come to their senses...

and will a few days wait really matter to anyone? why do you need the weapon so urgently that you just can't wait?

what's the need for a semi auto? all my hunting was with a bolt action rifle or single shot shotgun...I don't take part in competition target shooting so I may be wrong here but those are all of the single shot variety are they not?...

you're worried the info in the data base that shows you to be trustworthy enough to own a gun? you see a problem with this, really?...it seems to me the only people who would object to this are criminals and the mentally unstable who shouldn't have them

sure everyone should be able to access the database, I don't think you would want to unknowingly sell to the mentally unbalanced Newton shooter...guns shows, the way it works here if I want to buy a weapon at a gun show I bring my pre approved PAL card which shows I have been cleared to buy a weapon, if I don't have it no one will sell to me...there was recent gun show I attended and there were a couple WW2 sniper rifles I would've loved to own but I had no permit so it was my own fault...I could've had my bro-in-law to purchase them for me but he won't sell me anything either if I don't have a permit because he becomes responsible for what I do with them if he does...

agreed

 

again, why take away MY Rights when I've done nothing wrong? Why deprive me of my Right to self-defense with a firearm?

 

Which right do you believe will be taken away and how will that be accomplished exactly?

 

If you take away one type of weaponry then the right to self defnse ahd been diminished Johhny. And what is your problem with continuing to do what ahs prove effective over the last twenty years?

 

LOL!! So, what weaponry do you think the average citizen should possess? (We aren't EVEN into background and quals. here.)

What "effect" are you referring to? (I'm not buying that.) We cannot (and will not) continue as we have; that is fairly certain.

 

The huge drop in crime and violence over the last twenty years...

 

You and Tko want to limit a person to one rifle for hunting, my question was what about the different types of hunting a person does and neither one of you could answer the question which means you don't have the foggiest idea what the different ranges are or what calibers will work for what type of hunting which means your totally ignorant about both hunting and weapons. I am implying that a person that knows nothing about the subject has no business trying to push what they think will work off on anybody else. We had some State legislators a while back trying to pass a bill that would demand that flaggers have mirrors on the sides of their flag staff or helmet. Never having done the job they didn't know that the sun would blind a person that was using mirrors that way so, NO, they should have had no say in the matter. When the blinding part was pointed out to them instead of looking at it and saying, "Your right", they got mad and said, "We were just trying to help", all in a huff. Not knowing and trying to "HELP" can get a lot of people killed in a hurry. Knowing nothing about weapons, hunting, ballistics, etc, will wind up getting people killed.

 

The simple FACT that bou are unable and/or unwilling to see: as gun ownership has risen (dramatically), crime is DOWN.

 

I missed nothing, Tko. Do I understand, "" we have nation modern law enforcement""??? As I have already pointed out I was a reserve police officer for 3 years, my Uncle was the chief of police in a town in Oregon, my cousin was the Under Sheriff in this county, and I have 3 son-in-laws that are police officers with over 50 years experience between them. How about you, Tko, how many years have you on the police force??? I also served in the U.S. Navy, how about yourself, which service were you in??? But what you DON'T understand is that every male adult that's a citizen of this nation is considered to be a be a part of the Militia and can be called up at any time. "Oh no they can't, they dropped the draft". Guess what, they can reinstate it at any time they want to. Let's see if you can answer a simple question about rifles then. What's the difference in function between a .308 Remington 742 Game Master and an L1A1?? Let ANY federal Congressman or Senator try placing "basic standards" on weapons and see how long he will remain in office. Care to make any bets??? Now, there are people that do own functional tanks. There are people that have every type of machine gun made at home legally. There are people that have full automatic M-16s and AK-47s at home legally. Didn't you ever hear of a class 3 license???

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Well how about practical police experience, Johnny??? How much of that have you had??

 

If you think Australia has the right idea and you long for such a thing as they have got, then move there and leave the rest of us alone

 

I have already had 2 people in my family killed by gun fire . How about you Johnny, how many have you lost. But that doesn't change my mind about how I see things because I also know the other side of things and how they would be without guns.

 

"""...no "socialist" movement to "steal the people's guns""" Dianne Feinstein has already said that her goal to to confiscate all firearms in America so keep telling your lie and maybe you will believe it someday

 

Should people know enough to check the oil and water in the cars they drive??? Do they need to know what the marks on the dip stick mean??? Should they know how to check the break fluid and add some as needed?? How about the power steering fluid??? Do they need to know how to check that and what will happen if they over fill it?? And the same applies to the transmission. Should cars have governors on them so they will not go above 105 miles an hour??

 

Lets my niece is a NYC prosecutor, father a retired US Army Intelligence member, several other relatives served in the armed forces and no I never did I have Cerebral Palsy a disability so I can't serve. What does any of this have to do with my case and I admit the Militia is there in law and yes made of men under broad conditions but we don't use a militia anymore we have again a professional law enforcement, professional intelligence services and professional armed forces including the national guard and reserves. I asked my father his view he said if we were invaded and he the kind of man they would tap to work with partisans he did that overseas the view is you would be asked to stay home and leave the active defense to the professionals. A militia without regular training and military command structure is a detriment to any plans he would use to defend an urban area and your antics would likely lead to reprisals. Now once an occupation began it might be another story but a civilian militia would be undisciplined problems. National guard on the other hand are trained and under military command that is what they are for with other forces the US has. Militias are just not useful for actual combat when there is an active modern force and we have a good one.

As for rifles it doesn't matter of the nuances if a basic firearm suffices its Constitutional and therefore restrictions are allowed as the government decides as long as again there is not a gun ban altogether which I did not state. I won't even say take your existing guns I would just make having one a felony with say a year in prison each and a $20,000 fine. With a grace period to turn in your guns say a year. But I would be for taking them away.

 

you already have a plan. It does include erradication of the 2nd A. The only way they can enforce it absolutely is to suspend the 4th and 5th A. I have the rule of law on my side.
A Right infringed is no longer a Right but becomes a priviledge. A priviledge can be take away, legally. A Right is something they cannot touch.
What makes you think they will stop with those Rights? Once they've gotten those Rights away from us, what makes you believe you'll be safer? What are you going to use against brute force from the government? An unarmed citizenry cannot defend itself from government.
I understand you would like to see more socialism here, but there is too much resistance to that. Instead of trying to fight with your fellow americans, why not simply move to Australia or someplace like that.

 

Congratulations. Your thinking is sympatico with the Framers. They also wanted no gun control. They wanted blacks, women and children to own guns. Guns for everyone!

 

You can disagree in ignorance or look it up. SS and Obamacare were argued as the tax and spend authority of Congress because it is the only way it is constitutional.

 

""What does any of this have to do with my case...""
Simply this, you have absolutely no practical experience. On top of that, you refuse to Listen to people that do. If you live in the East I can see some of your views but here in the north west they sound simply stupid. In this county alone we have ever type of hunting that I mentioned. East of the Cascades we even have more of a variety. there are places here that you can go and never see anyone for over 100 miles. Tko, ask your father if a group of veterans got together if he thinks they could make their own command structure and fight efficiently. Noncoms led as many men into battle as officers in WW1 and WW 2, along with Korea.

Rifles do make a difference in what they are going to be used for. Like I said, you can go buy a Barrett .50 Caliber semi auto that takes a clip of 10 shots for $8,500 and up (http://www.gunbroker.com/Barrett-50/Browse.aspx?Keywords=Barrett+50) if a person has the interest in such a weapon and the money for it as well as Ammunition. I have the money but not the interest. You think I want to pack a 38 pound gun to the top of a mountain and lay there waiting for an animal to show, shot it, pack the gun all the way down....etc, etc, etc??? NOT HARDLY!!! But there is no one gun that will fill all the needs of hunting in this area. On top of that I don't believe the Constitution left it up to you or a 100,000 like you to determine what the rest of us can or can't do because you feel that it's the right thing to do. I have little to no use for an AR-15 but that doesn't mean I want to stop anyone else from owning one. I have no use for a full automatic but that doesn't mean that after jumping through the Governments hoops I would want to stop them from owning one. These are RIGHTS. And ask you father what he swore to defend, a president, an idea, or the Constitution???

 

Nor did it the people in Germany.

http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id14.html
It would be instructive at this time to recall why the American citizenry and Congress have historically opposed the registration of firearms. The reason is plain. Registration makes it easy for a tyrannical government to confiscate firearms and to make prey of its subjects. Denying this historical fact is no more justified than denying that the Holocaust occurred or that the Nazis murdered millions of unarmed people.
I am writing a book on Nazi policies and practices which sought to repress civilian gun ownership and to eradicate gun owners in Germany and in occupied Europe. The following sampling of my findings should give pause to the suggestion that draconian punishment of citizens for keeping firearms necessarily is a social good.

The Night of the Broken Glass (Kristallnacht)--the infamous Nazi rampage against Germany's Jews--took place in November 1938. It was preceded by the confiscation of firearms from the Jewish victims. On Nov. 8, the New York Times reported from Berlin, "Berlin Police Head Announces 'Disarming' of Jews," explaining:

The Berlin Police President, Count Wolf Heinrich von Helldorf, announced that as a result of a police activity in the last few weeks the entire Jewish population of Berlin had been "disarmed" with the confiscation of 2,569 hand weapons, 1,702 firearms and 20,000 rounds of ammunition. Any Jews still found in possession of weapons without valid licenses are threatened with the severest punishment.1

On the evening of Nov. 9, Adolf Hitler, Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, and other Nazi chiefs planned the attack. Orders went out to Nazi security forces: "All Jewish stores are to be destroyed immediately . . . . Jewish synagogues are to be set on fire . . . . The Führer wishes that the police does not intervene. . . . All Jews are to be disarmed. In the event of resistance they are to be shot immediately."2

All hell broke loose on Nov. 10: "Nazis Smash, Loot and Burn Jewish Shops and Temples." "One of the first legal measures issued was an order by Heinrich Himmler, commander of all German police, forbidding Jews to possess any weapons whatever and imposing a penalty of twenty years confinement in a concentration camp upon every Jew found in possession of a weapon hereafter."3 Thousands of Jews were taken away.

Invading Nazi troops in Holland in 1940 immediately nailed up posters announcing a ban on all firearms. From Die Deutsche Wochenshau, May 15, 1940. (Photo by Moser + Rosié, Berlin)
Searches of Jewish homes were calculated to seize firearms and assets and to arrest adult males. The American Consulate in Stuttgart was flooded with Jews begging for visas: "Men in whose homes old, rusty revolvers had been found during the last few days cried aloud that they did not dare ever again return to their places of residence or business. In fact, it was a mass of seething, panic-stricken humanity."4

 

""""what's the need for a semi auto? all my hunting was with a bolt action rifle or single shot shotgun...I don't take part in competition target shooting so I may be wrong here but those are all of the single shot variety are they not?.""""

First, let me say that I have over $1,600 invested in the main hunting rifle I use and I set it up over 10 years ago. When the children were at home I could not afford a rifle like that. I did buy a .270 but that's rather fast and light for brush hunting and in Western Washington we have a lot of that. At that time a SKS (7.62X39) was selling for $69. Yes, the bullet is light but it leaves the end of the barrel over 500 feet per second slower than the .270. And you want to know something, Wyl, I COULD afford $69. And a SKS is a semi automatic. An M1 garand rifle is also a great hunting rifle. Some people snivel about the weight but overall your not afraid to get it scratched up. A 742 Remington Game Master is also a good weapon. One of my favorites is the Browning B.A.R. in either 7 MM Mag. or .300 Mag.. If a person likes one what does it hurt you or anybody else if they buy one?? In the past 40 years I haven't needed more than one shot but that doesn't mean I'm not going to carry more than one shell. What most gun control people do not take into consideration is that owning firearms is a RIGHT, not a need, not a want, but rather, a RIGHT.


And, NO, competition shooting is NOT all single shot rifles. I have a son-in-law putting one together at the moment that is a bolt action, internal clip feed 7MM. He's setting it up for the 1,000 competition matches.

 

Johnny, you seem to think that the party you have been voting for only wants to play silly little games with the dreaded ASSAULT WEAPONS!!! Here's your beloved Senator in all her glory and telling the truth for once;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4AcjyuV38

In a 1995 broadcast of CBS’ 60 Minutes, Feinstein made the obvious admission saying she would love to have instituted an “outright ban” on all guns.

Senator Dianne Feinstein’s ultimate plan has always been to have Mr. and Mrs. America turn in their guns to the government, period. Feinstein’s bill would criminalize millions of Americans and completely eviscerate second amendment rights.

She tells us a gun ban is about saving the children and reducing crime, but her comments on 60 Minutes in 1995 reveal her true plan is to target law-abiding American gun owners.