What is logical and what is illogical?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Anarcho-Technocrat, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I'm not in the guessing game. I only know what he printed (said).. you on the other hand, presumably want people to believe that he said something that was not stated.
     
  2. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    pre·sum·a·bly
    Adverb:
    Used to convey that what is asserted is very likely though not known for certain.

    I thought you weren't in the guessing game?
     
  3. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    583
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The universe has not been around for an infinitely long period of time, it had a beginning and so it is not eternal. Scientists claim that some 14 billions years ago there was a big bang (an astronomically huge explosion) and the universe came into existence. The question then becomes what triggered this massive explosion. Did this explosion happened from out of nowhere?...from nothing? That doesn't appear logical because everyone knows that something does not come from nothing. So, if God is a "something," then He must have a cause, right?

    The question is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, “What does blue smell like?” Blue is not in the category of things that have a smell, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, God is not in the category of things that are created or caused. God is uncaused and uncreated—He simply exists.

    He is the one that created the universe and everything in existence. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." ---Genesis 1:1 NLT
     
  4. rstones199

    rstones199 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,875
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    63


    Can you prove this? Maybe the Universe has a big bang, expands, then collapses on itself ina big cruch and then another big bang, in an never ending cycle. Perhaps we are on cycle #1,569,536,282,639 or we might be on cycle #2.



    Because there is evidence to support this claim. That is why the Big Bang is a theory and not a Hypothesis.



    First off the Big Bang is the result of gravity. Secondly you can create something out of nothing. For every unit of positive energy in the Universe there is one unit of negative energy in the Universe. When you combine all the energy in the Universe, you get NOTHING. We are on the ultimate free lunch.

    Humans made up god(s) to explain the universe. It was an easy explanation for how the Universe got here. Today, we have natural answers with evidence for the Universe. All religions that have a central god pray upon ignorance to stay alive. Yes, you are wrong. 'god' was created. 'god' was created in the minds of human beings.

    Anyone who takes anything literally from the book of genesis is a complete moron.
     
  5. stroll

    stroll New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    10,509
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What leads you to think the 'something' which triggered this explosion was your God?
    There are several steps missing in this chain of arguments - assuming you wanted to make some sort of logical argument here.
     
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    583
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So are we the humans of cycle #2 or cycle #1,569,436,282,639?...lol Boy if we're the latter that's a whole lot of human history...lol

    While you continually play the guessing game, I have a definite explanation of how we came into existence and it is based on evidence...not guesswork!
     
  7. rstones199

    rstones199 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,875
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    63
    And what is this explination and evidence?
     
  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    79,778
    Likes Received:
    20,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wait, if you have to logically derive a solution, that by definition is guesswork.
    Evidence with no contrary is proof and not guesswork.

    The sun gives off energy, no logical guesswork needed to prove it.
    It is seen, felt, and used.
     
  9. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    583
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    So if gravity caused the big bang what caused gravity or what is gravity the result of?...duh you have no answer right?...lol

    Sorry, once again from nothing comes nothing and so it is illogical to say you can create something out of nothing. If you combine all the energy (equal amounts of positive and negative) they cancel out each other and you are left with nothing which means there is no more energy and so how is this cancellation creating something?

    Can you build a chair using nothing?...the answer is no!

    Can you build a chair using something ( wood, hammer, nails, saw)?...the answer is yes!

    I just proved from nothing comes nothing but from something comes something!...I'm a genius!...lol
     
  10. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    583
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Christian God is not made up. It is the truth. God revealed Himself when His only begotten Son Jesus Christ our Lord Savior lived among us some 2,000 yrs. ago. It is an historical fact. Do you have evidence that this historical fact is not true?

    Do you believe in the history books depicting the life of Alexander the Great? Or do you believe he is just a fictious character created in the minds of human beings who lived some 356 yrs. B.C. (Before Christ)?
     
  11. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    583
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I detect a hint of frustration, anger based on a typical response by an atheist using putdowns...my! my! don't go rupturing a nerve!

    Can't we all show some love?...lol
     
  12. rstones199

    rstones199 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,875
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    63
    This is obviously above your pay grade.

    You should study 'Zero-energy universe'.
     
  13. rstones199

    rstones199 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,875
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    63
    All gods are made up, the christian god too.

    There are no records of this Jesus when he was supposedly alive – none. The first writings of this myth do not show up till well after 15 years of his supposed crucifixion. Romans were very meticulous record keepers, yet we do not find any records of Jesus while he was supposedly alive – NONE.

    Have you read about Horus? Horus and Jesus have many strikingly similar attributes. You should look at them. If you really feel like being adventurous you can look at other messiahs and see what they have in common with Jesus. Jesus was simply the last “Johnny Come Lately” messiah who stole his attributes from all the others that came before him.
     
  14. rstones199

    rstones199 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,875
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    63
    And I'm still waiting......
     
  15. stroll

    stroll New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    10,509
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The explanation is "The God of the Bible" and the evidence is "The Universe". lol
     
  16. stroll

    stroll New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    10,509
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If you combine all the energy ... they cancel out each other and you are left with nothing - right.
    So, from nothing come positive and negative energies - something came from nothing, according to your own reasoning.

    Which one is it? lol
     
  17. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    583
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There is absolutely no validity to your statement...shall we just say it is an invalid statement.
     
  18. Vanka

    Vanka New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    O.K. then I'll simply assert that the universe is uncaused and uncreated. It simply exists. There you go!
     
  19. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    583
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The universe had a begining (the big bang) and so it was created. It was created by Almighty God!...write that down in your notebook!
     
  20. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,344
    Likes Received:
    27,997
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Except stones was 100% correct.

    You'd know this if you weren't wilfully historically illiterate.
     
  21. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Where is your absolute PROOF of claim that "all gods are made up, the christian god too."?
     
  22. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,344
    Likes Received:
    27,997
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    All around you. Open your eyes.
     
  23. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    My eyes are wide open and I see nothing that indicates that "all gods are made up, the christian god too." Where exactly am I or someone else supposed to look in that 'all around you' scenario. Is it under my coffee cup, perhaps in my printer under all the paper? Where exactly?
     
  24. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,344
    Likes Received:
    27,997
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There you go. You are failing to peer beyond very narrow confines.
     
  25. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    And you still cannot properly identify where, specifically, one is to look.... also, you are failing to expound upon what specifically one is to be looking for. You really do need to brush up on your ability to present a proper claim which can be substantiated.
     

Share This Page