What regultions/controls do you Gun Grabbers want

I thought we respectfully agreed to disagree on this topic.

By the way, it is already illegal for a private gun owner to transfer a handgun to any person that cannot legally possess a handgun, or resides in a different state. The vast (vast) majority of handguns used in crimes were acquired by straw purchase, or stolen. Why shouldn't we be focusing our efforts on things that have some hope of being measurably effective? Background checks are feel-good, do-nothing sentiments and nothing more.

 

That could be because you never read the "Patton Papers" It's all in Vol. One (1885-1940) [1,048 pages]
Vol. Two covers 1940-145 [944 pages]

George S. Patton was the richest officer to ever serve in the U.S. Army. He also is credited of conducting the first all motorized combat assault in history in 1915 during the American expedition into Mexico against Pancho Villa.

 

I hear you. Just understand that guns don't get used up and discarded in a few years, like cars do. I have a Colt revolver that is 136 years old, and still fires like it was brand new. There are upwards of a half-BILLION guns at large in our society today. If you're hoping to have a positive gun-crime effect on the next decade, background checks and registration databases aren't going to get you there. IMO, you need to focus your efforts on the PEOPLE who are committing the crimes, not the tools of their trade, or disarming their victims.

 

Then give me an approximate page number to the Patton/tank thing. At the least, I would think you could tell me the name of the tank, and the manufacturer and when it was built, and when it was adopted by the Army.

 

Yup, currently there are about 350 million unregistered guns. My newest gun is just a bit less than 20 years old. Most guns are not causing any problem. Most are just collecting dust in a safe. The problem is people who choose to use guns in crime. Our murder rate is about half of what it was in the mid 1990s. Gun ownership is at about the same rate as it was in the 1990s. I credit harsher prison sentences for some of this.

 

Now that would be found in Vol. 1 of the "Patton Papers" and I don't own neither Vol. 1 or Vol. 2 of the "Patton Papers" but I have read both cover to cover. And if Vol. 1 was on the internet I'm not going through over 1,000 pages.

The U.S. Army's first tanks were of British and French design. Patton built the first all American made tank of American design.

I would say the time line was after WW l and before Esienhower became Gen. MacArthures clerk in the P.I.s since Esienhower worked along side with Patton when he was building his tank.

 

Funny, I live in California and none of those ideas seem to stop anything. With guns OR cars.

You can buy and drive a car without registration or training. Even if you are young. No competence is required as you can see just by driving any freeway here. They can revolk your license, but that doesn't prevent you from driving anyway. Regulations for safety of the vehicle and safe operation? Please....

 

So why aren't all 12 year olds driving? This is such a straw man fallacy - because it does not stop every incidence it is not worthwhile

It is not about stopping things - it is about reducing incidence

 

I would point out a couple of things:

1) No one has any idea exactly how many guns there are, if they did, we'd already have a problem.
2) Anyone who tells a telephone pollster or survey taker if they have a gun in their house is a bona-fide idiot, and there really aren't many who are that stupid. Any poll numbers you find that depict gun households are worthless.

It is my opinion that the 350 million estimate is grossly underestimated. I base this on my personal experience with gun owners. I have lots guns in my safes, and the government only has paperwork on two of them, the ones I bought new from an FFL.

It is also my opinion that the number of NEW households with a firearm is SKYROCKETING. I base this on my own experiences with new gun owners, the CCP issue rate, the word of respected CCP course instructors (one of which is a regular on this forum), and range owners who have told me it is the case. Unprecedented numbers of new people are coming to the shooting sports... Those of us who are involved, see and meet them. There is not one day at the range that I do not meet or see someone who is a new gun owner, or is soon to be. Based on all this, I can not be convinced that the number of gun owners is the same as 1990... there just is no possible way.

 

12 year olds DO drive. Just like there are 12 year olds with a gun.

I belonged to both catagories when I was 12.

 

Do they drive on freeways?

This is not about stopping something but mitigation

Why are there not riots and looting every day?

It is because we have a system of laws

 

It's the system of laws that often causes rioting.

 

LOL! We did in a general way. I'm still looking for middle ground. Someone has to reach out to the other side, but I won't post to you about it anymore, if you want it that way.

Most criminals don't get their guns by stealing them, but, you are right about straw purchases. Now that straw purchasers get 10 years in jail, I think those sales will slow.

The below is why I cannot let the private sale without a background check go….

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

I remain hopeful that you will evolve on this issue.

 

Sounds like a good setup but spendy I would imagine?

 

You may be right, which is the reason I argue that we should look at a broad spectrum of ideas on how to curtail our out of control firearm related deaths in America. I think it's possible to have mechanisms in place that mitigate gun violence while still allowing law abiding people to own firearms. What exactly are those mechanisms? That is up for debate and is not a question that I have an answer to.

 

Yes, I know.

I'm talking about a change in our culture along with better safety measures. The problems are multi-pronged, so will be the solutions.

 

Most of the smaller good quality ones run $100-$200. The problem with them is they are easy to steal and break into later.

 

The best suggestions I have off the top of my head:

1) Go after straw purchasers
2) Actually prosecute people that attempt to illegally purchase guns from FFLs
3) Give NICS the funding it needs. Currently it gets about 5% of the money it was promised
4) Stiff penalties and prosecutions for any felon in possession of a gun, or uses one in the commission of crime

You're not going to get anywhere trying to restrict the tool, short of total confiscation and house to house fighting.

We don't even use the legal tools already on the books and these fools want to pass more laws.

Laws aren't going to do anything unless you start prosecuting known violent offenders and removing them from society.

 

That is a good point but IMO represents a reasonable attempt to secure your firearm. Perhaps the lock boxes are not best to counter home invasions when the gun owner is out, but it is a better barrier at keeping a firearm out of the hands of a child or mentally ill person in the home.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree. "Laws" never stopped anything. Otherwise, they would never be broken.

 

I agree. I put my SentrySafe in the main safe when I'm not home.

Problem is a lot of people out there renting or whatever don't have the option for a much larger more permanent safe.

Locking your door should be more than sufficient, but people act like you should expect people to break into your house. That is scarier than someone with a gun.

 

None of those are private sales... they are corrupt FFLs. It is already a FELONY for an FFL to do that. Why are they allowed to do that, and not be prosecuted? Why do you think more restrictive laws are necessary when the EXISTING laws, if enforced, would eliminate every example you have given?

 

I got mine at Academy Sports...The minivault is $99.99, the multivault is $139.99 plus I get 20% employee discount so it is not bad.

 

AND... children, dumb-assed parents, dumb-assed "good" guy vigilantes, raging/angry fools, MENTAL people and those who are generally incompetent.

Limiting/restricting access further, will NOT hurt America one bit. So, let's get on with doing that.

 

We are remarkably close in agreement my friend

I have NEVER advocated taking guns away from everyone but - a restriction on access to guns, and an increase in the responsibility of gun owners to BE good citizens with a gun would go a long way toward reducing the death toll. By this I mean guns should be under lock and key unless being used - if you own a gun you do not get to sell it to the first person to offer cash and you have to report it missing or stolen if it is not in your possession