What should the legal status of Palestinians be?

So because you arrived at a false conclusion, that makes your previous false statements okay? That's some weird logic.

Anyway, threatened with the loss of international support, Israel would have no choice but to make serious concessions, including relinquishing control over Jerusalem. Without international support, Israel would wither and die. And Israel knows this. So there would be no need to kill anyone in order to place Jerusalem under international control. The fear of losing international support would be more than sufficient motivation.

 

The only iternational support Israel has at the present time is the United States and that isn't going anywhere. Attempting to strip Jerusalem from the Jews is like trying to take Mecca from the Muslims, You can manage it but the cost in human life is likely be intolerably high. The only false conclusion here is yours.

 

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Pure speculation. And ultimately irrelevant to my original point.

That's just your opinion. I don't share it. I believe Jerusalem can be placed under international control without violence. And that is my position.

 

The Palestinians should stop acting like savages.
If they do, and - gasp - embrace the rational thought which underpins western democracies, they might, someday, be offered Israeli citizenship.
Absent that, they will eventually cease to exist.

 

Resisting invasion and occupation often seems "savage" from the viewpoint of the invaders and the occupiers.

 

-Jordan- resisted the invasion that resulted from Jordanian acts of war. They failed.
Jordan then stripped the Palestinians of their citizenship and ceded the land to Israel - ending the occupation, almost 25 years ago.

Thus, your response has no basis in fact - and while you may very well describe the -beliefs- of the Palestinians, it only serves to validate my point.

 

Israel was founded by Zionist invaders who violently displaced the indigenous Arab majority. Everything that has happened since then is the poisoned fruit of that original sin.

 

Israel exists as a sovereign state, and isn't going away.
And thus, we're back to the Palestinians having the choice to act like savages and eventually cease to exist, or to turn their backs on the dark ages and walk into the light.
Their choice.
Which do you advise?

 

I never said it should go away. But the fact remains, Israel is the aggressor, having come into existence as a result of invading and violently displacing the indigenous Arab majority. That is a historical fact. And as long as Israel refuses to recognize the legitimacy of Arabic presence in the region, there will never be peace.

Israel has all the power (for now), yet what have they done with it? Continue to expand and steal land in violation of all international laws and norms. So who is really behaving like the savages here?

How is resistance to invasion and occupation savagery?

 

I'm sorry, but uninhabited land doesn't mean that territory is not a part of that county. Heck, 47% of the United State's territory, and most of Canada is uninhabited. The 1947 map literally represents the territories established by the UN when Israel was established as its own nation. As of today it is actually the entirety of Palestine that is annexed by Israel, the white on the map represents the areas that are under Israeli military control. Portions of the west bank that are under partial (administrative) control of the Palestinian authority are under Israeli military control. The significance of these military controlled areas is they are under restricted movement.

 

Wars like voting has consequences...

 

It was not a country, there never was an arab country called Palestine on the face of the planet EVER. What part of "it was uninhabited land that did not belong to Arabs on a territory that did not belong to Arabs" don't you understand? And why do you even bother commenting on things that you are so utterly uninformed about, mindlessly regurgitating this lying Islamic propaganda instead of learning history and topography of the region.

Nonsense, the UN gave the Negev (40% of the area) to Israel, yet the lying 1947 arab propaganda map colors it green and assigns it to the Arabs.

PS lest we forget that the entire Jordan was part of Palestine and it was given to the arabs before the partition

Another piece of utter BS, it's under Israeli military control indeed, but it is under full Palestinian administrative and political control (does the name Abbas ring a bell? ) and it is certainly not annexed. Assigning it to Israel is disgusting lying Islamic propaganda that you're here mindlessly regurgitating.

 

Says who?

 

History:

Until 1948, Palestine typically referred to the geographic region located between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.
https://www.history.com/topics/middle-east/palestine

So I repeat, the Negev was uninhibited land that did not belong to the Arabs in the region called Palestine that was not a country and did not belong to the Arabs. The map assigning it to the Arabs in 1947 is nothing but cheap disgusting lying Islamist propaganda that some clueless gullible ignorant westerners take at face value and regurgitate.

 

No it isn't nonsense, here's an image of the actual UN map




You're also calling parts of my post BS, as you proceed to reaffirm what I already said. Again, the white parts on the previous map represents the parts that are under Israeli military control, and as I already acknowledged in my post, this includes parts that are under Palestinian administrative control.

 

1. What part of "the Negev before the partition was uninhibited and was not part of an arab country. Depicting it as Arab land is thus disgusting Islamic lie and propaganda" don't you understand and what does your partition map have to do with any part of our conversation?

2. The right-most map depicts the entire west bank as part of Israel. This is another Islamic lie and propaganda, Israel has not annexed it and has no intention of annexing it. Agree or disagree with Israel's military control of the area, but it belongs to the arabs and it is ruled by an elected arab government led by Abbas which is exercising full [totalitarian] administrative, economic and political control over it.

 

These "facts" are irrelevant to the issue at hand, especially given your concession that Israel, as a sovereign state, has a right to exist, and will not go away.

Allow me to explain, again:
- Jordan- resisted the invasion that resulted from Jordanian acts of war. They failed.
- Jordan then stripped the Palestinians of their citizenship and ceded the land to Israel - ending the occupation - almost 25 years ago.
- Thus, your response has no basis in fact - and while you may very well describe the -beliefs- of the Palestinians, it only serves to validate my point.

And thus, we are again back to the Palestinians having the choice to act like savages and eventually cease to exist, or to turn their backs on the dark ages and walk into the light.
Their choice.
Which do you advise?

 

Except...
Where was the Israeli border with Jordan in May 1967?
Where, under international law, is the Israeli border with Jordan, presently?

 

Probably best to relocate them to surrounding countries or to gain citizenship in Isreal through a vetting process.

 

While the border with Jordan has absolutely no relevance to the discussion we were having about a lying Islamic map claiming that Israel owns the West Bank, nevertheless

under international law the Israeli border with Jordan is exactly where it presently is - the countries signed a peace treaty which established the border between them and these agreements are final, binding and fully recognized by international law.

 

No, it is not an Islamic lie, that is literally how the UN drew the map when they created Israel. Your argument that it was uninhabited is irrational, territories are NOT drawn exclusively based on areas that are inhabited. Parts of the Israeli side of the map are uninhabited too, but again territories are not determined exclusively by land that is inhabited.

and for the record, that elected Arab government you referring to exists due to the Gaza–Jericho Agreement. Israel did not grant permission for the Palestinian territory to hold their own elections until the 1990s.

 

You said:
Agree or disagree with Israel's military control of the area, but it belongs to the arabs
That being the case, the actual borders of Israel are absolutely relevant.

Which is where, and how does this compare to the Israeli/Jordanian border prior to the 6-day war?

 

The left most map is pre-partition map. It depicts uninhibited land (about 40% of the territory) as belonging to Arabs which is a bold-faced Islamic lie

Here you go, the land is ruled by elected Arab government as you admit and yet the lying Islamic propaganda that you here regurgitate claims that Israel owns that land.

 

the area being the West Bank, not Jordan

The border prior to the 6-day war was not accepted by Jordan and the rest of the Arab world, they started several wars with the explicit intent to redefine those borders. The border established in the peace treaty was mutually acceptable to both Israel and Jordan and it became undisputed, internationally recognized, supported by international law and the UN border.

 

The WB - territory that -used- to be part of Jordan. Right.

Given that Jordan annexed the WB into its territory - and gave its people Jordanian citizenship - in 1950, they would passionately disagree with you.
As would the Israelis.
I will ask again:
Where is the current Israeli/Jordanian border, and how does it compare to said border prior to the 6 day war?