What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Meta777, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are much too biased...
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    62,026
    Likes Received:
    16,967
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was responding to the comment that maybe we could let China lead for a while.

    And, I remain steadfast in believing that is ABJECT INSANITY.
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't say 'let China lead for a while'? IMO it's just a matter of time before China or India are superpowers and there's nothing the US can do about this. Between the two we're talking ~3 billion people! If they don't implode they're on the path to lead the world...all it takes is a little time...
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    62,026
    Likes Received:
    16,967
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree.

    However, I do think we can compete.

    BUT, we can't compete by raising barriers to education, by yelling at companies to serve America against their own business purposes, by ignoring trade pacts that are tools for forcing fair competition, etc.
     
  5. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The timeline of China’s rise began in the late 1990s when Germany, overwhelmed by the domestic response to a government incentive program to promote rooftop solar panels, provided the capital, technology and experts to lure China into making solar panels to meet the German demand

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Making solar panels is difficult. To make them efficiently, the business requires large, semiautomated factories.

    ==================================================

    According to Ronen, the expert from George Washington University, China then decided to follow Germany’s lead again, developing its own “feed-in tariff” that paid handsome prices for electricity generated by rooftop solar. The result was a surge in domestic demand for solar.

    The demand was so great that in two years, by 2015, China’s domestic market bypassed Germany’s to be the largest in the world.

    China tried to reduce the subsidy this year by setting a deadline for ending it, but that spurred another surge in domestic buying. “China put in 20 gigawatts in the first half of this year. The entire U.S. capacity is around 31 GW. The Chinese market appears enormous,” said Ronen.


    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-china-is-dominating-the-solar-industry/
     
  6. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No it is not. The payback for solar is a few years, after that it's all gravy.

    You should decide which side of the fence you want to be on. We have been subsidizing oil for decades. Subsidies are meant to help fledgling industries start up not a taxpayer gifts to huge corporations.
    While you are complaining about China solar the US is going to reduce subsidies on solar. A few years from now you will be back complaining that everyone has cheaper energy costs because they went with solar while we are here still trying to promote coal. It's not just stupid. It borders on criminal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  7. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I dont recal the events ad you describe them but I’ll take your word for it

    WWII beat dreams of world domination out of the germans and replaced it with globalism

    So for them making solar panels in china was just a business decision

    But not so for the communist dictators in china

    For them it was a stroke of national luck and they took advantage of it
     
  8. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Almost no one buys solar at full market value

    They expect government to compensate them for the higher cost

    Thats not to say solar will never compete or beat fossil fuel some day

    Because I think it will

    Somewhere on the plantet the secret of cheap, affordable electricity from the sun is waiting to be discovered by the next Thomas Edison

    But we arent there yet
     
  9. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And because we are clinging to coal and oil like our guns and bibles, we will be way behind.

     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  10. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No we wont

    Libs just want Ameticans to buy solar panels and you dont care how much they cost

    Thats not realistic in the real world
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  11. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your pretty funny.
    They are expensive now because Thumper put tariffs on them. Meanwhile the rest of the world is moving forward with renewables that will put them ahead of us in the near future. It's how the Chinese work, in case you haven't noticed.
     
  12. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Solar panels have always been expensive

    Which is why liberals expect the government to pay for them

    And the same goes for electric cars

    But I think that subsidies are going to fade away soon
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  13. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If we can pay for oil and coal, we can certainly pay for solar. You complain about the Chinese yet you are unwilling to learn from their methods.
     
  14. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The government does not pay homeowners to use fossil fuel

    And it does not pay miners to dig coal
     
  15. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Go Google oil subsidies. The government subsidizes it for everyone.
    Didn't Trump recently pay coal powered power companies to stockpile coal?
     
  16. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Google is fulll of wild claims but very little real facts

    But I suppose for libs the seriousness of the charge iscall that matters
     
  17. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Really? You are a loved Trump voter.
    If you don't like Google just keep following the information to the actual federal statue. Come on. You can do it!
     
  18. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am not going to play Go Fetch with you

    If you have anything to offer lets see it
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If anyone can agree that China and India can become superpowers, with 3/7's the world's population, this alone tells me that the US needs to do two things; First, accept the idea that the US won't always be #1 and make sure the US is solid allies with China and India, and second, plan how to be competitive, where to be competitive, in position #3...
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    62,026
    Likes Received:
    16,967
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I strongly agree with your 2.

    India is a democracy, but they are farther behind in terms of economy and face some real challenges.

    There is a distance between where things are today and China being a ally.
     
  21. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    16,319
    Likes Received:
    10,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Make trade the only objective, with governments having to get completely out of the way of their people who want to trade and make money. Make trade so free and unrestricted and the average working person so prosperous that wars interrupting trade and money making would be ridiculous.

    Allow no government to impose any sanctions or restrict trade in any way.

    Just because a dictator is murderous and cruel that is no reason not to trade.
     
  22. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Can you click a link? Or is that to hard?
    You can find one on coal if you only try.
    Poor baby.
     
  23. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I did follow your link

    I agree that home heating oil subsidies are wrong

    If you want end them its fine with me
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    62,026
    Likes Received:
    16,967
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We advantage oil companies by selling them our resource on the cheap and forgiving them their taxes for drilling - to the point they there have been times that oil corporations with huge income pay no taxes at all.
     
  25. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ot at all

    Liberal socialists have conditioned voters ro expect handouts from the government and thats just one of many that should eliminated
     

Share This Page