How completely disrespectful to refer to abortion as a " leisurely activity"....it shows your complete unwillingness to understand what a woman with an unexpected and unwanted pregnancy goes through.....the disrespect for her LIFE is astounding. Abortion might have "moral repercussions" to YOU but YOUR morals are not everyone's...there are other people in the world. The FACT that you want abortion deemed "murder" but do not want the murderer punished is very strange. Why do you call it murder but not want the murder punished??
Morality has no bearing on any future decisions concerning abortion, since the first time that abortion was raised in the legal system the aspect of morality was moot. The only place abortion is going to change (if it changes at all) will be decided by the legal system. You own personal moral viewpoint can only reflect the way in which you perceive abortion and how you perceive it can only reflect on how you live your life, it has no bearing on other people. The courts (specifically SCOTUS) could deem abortion to be morally indefensible and still deem is legal, just because something is seen as morally wrong by some people does not mean it should be illegal, the courts are not there to decide morality. and you are right we cannot agree whether it is wrong or not, because the decision on what is right or wrong rest solely with the individual.
The argument is, somewhere between the age you are now, and the moment you were conceived, there is some sort of "line" that pro-death baby killers such as yourself set, to make yourself feel better about murder. How do you set that line? If, as you've indicated, there is no line, what's wrong with a mom killing her born children?
There is no line, as I have stated before. I really does not bother me in the slightest if the courts were decide tomorrow that from the moment of fertilization there is a person, in fact it makes legal elective abortion at any time easier to defend AND adds weight to the state paying for them. and why are you being offensive, where have I been offensive to you, I thought you wanted an adult debate on this?
Deportation? Why are you treating her differently than other murderers? It is disrespectful and deceitful to post that I think murder is OK.....YOU have the right to think abortion is murdering "babies" but it is disrespectful and deceitful to say others think murdering "babies" is OK. The typical, trite reference to the holocaust is a tried and true indication that the Anti-Choicer is getting desperate in their failing arguments...
How dare you suggest that abortion is a difficult decision for women. Like this Washington Post article points out, you are insinuating that she had to wrestle with making an immoral choice, and it points out that most women who delay having an abortion do so for scheduling reasons. Your thoughtless words conflate a choice that women can make to ease their lives, and often end suffering or an immediate threat to themselves. Perhaps you should stop pushing your beliefs on women, and try to be more tolerant and considerate in the future! Not every woman believes like you believe and it was careless of you to assume they do!
LOL! Oh the defensiveness!! I never posted that abortion is a difficult decision for women.....but it may be for some and you showed total disrespect for them by calling it a leisurely activity. I never posted: ""you are insinuating that she had to wrestle with making an immoral choice, and it points out that most women who delay having an abortion do so for scheduling reasons" So deceit is coming into play for those with no good argument... But it did show that you can't answer the question: Why deportation for a "murder"?
I didn't mean for that to come across as offensive. The question is genuine. You said you have no "line". I just want to clarify that you don't think "birth" is a cut off line. Or do you?
and how dare you assume through one anecdotal example proves that abortion is a " leisurely activity" or are you like so many others using hasty generalizations as the basis for your arguments? What is with all this immoral and moral things .. just because something is moral or immoral doesn't mean it has to be legal or illegal. You morality is your business, not mine or any other persons, to think that you can try to impose your moral beliefs onto others via legalisation is immoral in itself. You claim that you arguments is not about legalities, and yet you want to involve legalities in the debate .. please make your mind up.
I am saying neither, what I am saying is that it simply does not matter, nor do I care when personhood 'is', it makes no difference what so ever to the legal status of abortion
The article sited statistical evidence supporting the theory. I'd prefer to discuss the morality of the subject, but will discuss the legality of the subject when pressed. There should be laws against abortion. Not because abortion is simply immoral, but because abortion is murder, and society has an obligation to protect those who cannot defend themselves. It doesn't matter if that contradicts what you believe, and someone's beliefs are forced on you. If you believe it is ok to end people's lives, then the law should stand against you.
As I said, the state should protect defenseless people from having their lives ended. Interesting signature block, the part you have there in red. Abortion reduced through education? Education about what? All the many people out there who are unaware of where babies come from? You believe that the millions of abortions performed in the world, it's because people are unaware of the link between sex and pregnancy? School kids laugh and make jokes about it by the 8th grade. You can't believe that some woman in her 20s on her 3rd abortion just needs the birds and bees explained to her. I refuse to believe you believe that. It's too silly.
Sounds like you're against education. Educating people to the use of Birth Control reduces the need for abortions. A woman on her third abortion doesn't represent the entire female population, OBVIOUSLY. You want the state to protect "people" ( I assume you are referring to fetus) from having their "lives" ended but you don't know how they would do this or what the punishment should be . So do you want abortion made illegal just so you can feel good about yourself?
We've had laws against abortion before, and they were totally ineffective. The numbers of abortion were approximately the same as today after 40 years of legality. How will you change those laws to make them effective now? How can society protect something that is within a woman's body? Because an abortion is such a private matter, society will not even be aware of a pregnancy until it is too late, then society will be unaware that an abortion took place. How are you going to get society into the private areas of a woman's life?
Sex education involves more than just "insert tab A into slot B." It also involves information on birth control, why using birth control is a good choice, why abstinence is a good choice, information on emotions, etc. Studies have shown comprehensive sex ed is effective in delaying the age of initial sexual intercourse. Probably they're laughing about the 6th grade girls being pregnant because they didn't know about using birth control due to lack of sex ed. Women having a third abortion are pretty rare. Some women cannot use the most effective forms of birth control, so some sympathy would be in order, not contempt.
You know as well as I do that statistics can be made to say whatever is required. I am at work, so will come back to you on this later.
Why can't you explain in DETAIL how making abortion illegal will stop abortions when it never has EVER. Explain how a woman would be charged? WHO would bring charges? WHO would accuse her and HOW? WHAT EXACTLY would YOU say to the police if YOU suspected a woman had an abortion and WHY would you suspect a woman of having an abortion? How would it be investigated? There is no body. No indication of any wrong doing. How would an investigation proceed? Some states have capital punishment so if by some miracle a woman was convicted of having an abortion , YOU, who claims to be "pro-life", would want her put to death...
I never claimed it would stop abortions, but it would stop some some abortions. You put these words in my mouth. Generally these laws would target the performers of abortions. If you can put away the people who perform them, or stop them from being able to perform them, then that would curtail a lot of them. Additionally, not being able to give abortions will make them just generally more difficult to find. The point isn't that we could line up outside of abortion clinics putting women away, but the simple fact that the law would shut down the clinics themselves. Prosecutors, as usual. Prosecutors, in a court of law. Evidence is found through investigation and witnesses. Why? If I had evidence, reasonable enough, to conclude a law had been broken, then I would suspect it had been. At that point I would probably call dispatch and say "I have evidence that a law has been broken". Not complicated. The police would gather evidence, speak with witnesses, and form a case. Often there is. In fact, in every case there is, sometimes microscopic, but there nonetheless. Do you want me to explain the process of police investigations? Seriously? Go watch CSI or something. This is a false dichotomy. I don't believe in the death penalty for any crime, but that doesn't mean I'd be willing to legalize all crimes that some states punish with death. For instance, just because I wouldn't make homicide legal in a state with the death penalty doesn't mean I support death penalty. So simply because I don't agree with every aspect of the judicial system doesn't mean I don't believe laws should be done away with. You arguments stink. Bad.
What is the basis for your belief that a fertilized egg is a person? What makes you more "moral" for having that belief than someone who has a different belief? Which is exactly why pro-lifers are attempting to change the meaning of "person."
So the judicial system should be run on YOUR whims? No, in some states "murder" is punishable by death whether YOU like it or not and you are pushing for women being put to death based solely on your "morals"... Tell me HOW or WHY you would be so involved in a woman's sex life and internal organs , her periods or lack of periods that you'd be able to suspect she had an abortion? Should ALL woman be monitored??
Since the numbers of abortions performed today are close to the numbers estimated performed in the several years preceding RvW, it seems likely that criminalization doesn't stop ANY abortions. When abortion was a crime before, there were no "clinics." An abortionist would take his tools with him to various locations, and the location would be different every day. Abortions are available legally in Canada and Mexico. Abortions are also provided legally to women in countries where it is illegal by "Women on Waves", an organization which anchors a ship just offshore. By far most of the abortion crimes these days would be medical abortions. No clinic, no abortionist. No evidence since it would be promptly flushed. Please be specific. What exactly constitutes evidence? I've never seen CSI deal with gathering evidence from an illegal abortion. Please explain EXACTLY what is evidence and how it could be gathered without violating a woman's civil rights. Are you going to open the sewers and look for microscopic embryoes? If so, how will you know that it is evidence of an induced abortion and not a spontaneous abortion? Of course you don't like them, you can't counter them. Pleeeeeze....."the police will gather evidence"......if you can't come up with a better explanation than that, you're finished.
The Anti-Choicers have never been able to answer these questions......and it's because they don't really care. If abortion is made illegal they can just sit back and feel all smug and self-righteous as they make other people's lives living hell. I know that not all Christians are like this but the ones that are sure give their "god" bad PR.
It doesn't matter what I believe. It only matters what can be proven, and neither can it be proven that the fertilized egg is a person or is not a person. Until it can be proven that a life form is not a person, the burden of proof must rest on those who would end its life on determining that they are not, in fact, committing murder. I care enough about human life to respect its very existence. That's what makes my position superior. Like I said, it doesn't matter what definition of what is used.
I've noticed you keep on repeating this over and over. I've been ignoring you for a while, but you are pretty ignorant about the history of abortion in the US, so much so that it's irritated me into speaking up. Roe wasn't some turning point, where all of a sudden abortion was legal, when it was illegal before that, therefore whatever statistics you are insisting are out there, that you never site by the way, can't be used as indicators for what making abortion illegal would do. Not to mention the other changes in social structures in modern society, such as the decline of the free love culture of the 60s and 70s, should indicate that the same laws then as now would have differing effects. I'm not even going to bother continuing to explain how batty what you say is. Here's a pro-choice article detailing how oblivious you are: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/06/1/gr060108.html Get educated, and then come back for some more discussion. Until then, stop repeating the same idiotic false things over and over.
No, you do not respect the lives of others because you want to control them with YOUR "morals".....that is total disrespect. Can't respond to the posts about "where/what is the EVIDENCE"""?????
