When WAS America great?

Honestly, there are steps we can take to lift wages through the operation of private markets. We want people to be able to look after themselves.

 

The problem is there is no will to do such things. There’s too much easily accessible “cheap” labor available outside the US and there’s no appetite for denying access to it. And as you mentioned already, immigration allows wage suppression at home as well.

Global economies have consequences.

 

When was America great? Early 2000s

 

I think I grew up in the last golden era.

I am 49 years old.

I grew up mostly in the 80's. Reagan sucked, but I was to young to know any better. I came of age just as computers came about. I learned them, ( hello MS Dos 3.12, and EMM386 ) early, and made a life out of them. Cell phones and Internet werent a thing until I was an adult.

I got to have a childhood. for us the come home time was "when the street lights go on"

I would never want to be a child today. Ever.

 

Its not just "cheap labor" its cheap goods as well.

We are addicted to it. Cheaper goods have been a boon for many Americans. Acces to cheap labor has made this possible.

Remove that, you remove cheap goods as well. This will lower the standard of living for quite a few poeple.

Im not saying disagree with you. But there are ramifications.

 

No, but we cannot keep going the direction we are going either.
Ideally though, technology will get us there with the right policies.

 

Computer technology enables geniuses to become billionaires. It creates careers for people of below average intelligence. It destroys jobs for people of below average intelligence.

The Republican response to this is to cut taxes for the rich.

 

In the capitalist marketplace most people benefit from a government that places its thumb on their side of the scale. Wages can only be lifted with strong labor unions and a high minimum wage.

 

Yeh, I agree. But you have to look deeper. These cheap goods only remain cheap because of our debt based currency. We have no underlying wealth creation, we are just keeping our heads barely above water by a vicious cycle of increases to the monetary supply.

If we were to do things to increase domestic production (would require isolationist actions as well as a less debt based inflationary monetary system) cost of goods would increase, but wage increases would mostly compensate.

In the long run, income and wealth inequality would stabilize because the golden rule (those with the gold make the rules) we see today would be short circuited. The golden rulers would have less power to increase the money supply when it benefits them and less power to dictate what currencies must be used that also benefit them.

But change will never happen until the house of cards falls. The golden rule rules. The golden rulers don’t want change so….the average dude will continue to own less percentage of tangible assets and the golden rulers will continue to own a higher percentage of tangible non depreciating assets over time.

This is where the saying
“You will own nothing and be happy” comes into play

 

Then this entire forum means nothing. Virtutally every post is opinion. Hello! This is about politics.

 

I didn't ignore anything. Unlike you I lived through the 50's.

 

Yes I know. My point was that it occurred because of stupid investing rather than the fact that the economy was good or that it happened in the 1920's. The great depression was caused by the public.

 

I see. It seems we agree. People trying to milk “wealth” out of a system without underlying value. We haven’t learned our lesson either, have we?

 

Rush, Newt, Murdoch, Oreilly and others made what could have been a wonderful decade of progress for one and all into the breeding grounds of today's dysfunctional GOP. Clinton was really just old man Bush with a better vocabulary. I voted for him and liked him but he was no liberal.

 

That is always almost the best time frame for most people.
The days they grew up and into their early 20s.
Before they had to be responsible for all of their own being.

 

UM, no. This thread is about what time frame people think was when America was great.
Yes, it's opinions.
And most every person will pick the time frame of their youth.
You made this claim. And now you admit I was correct in that it's only people's opinions.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/when-was-america-great.616696/page-12#post-1074666222

 

It might be getting worse if government has its way. They want to put an end to cash which is backed by nothing and replace it with records in a database which is nothing. And all if it is to allow government greater ease in spying on the public.

 

That’s very apparent judging by how you openly ignore all the bad **** that happened back then.

 

Has anyone informed all these women they are miserable?

 

You brought up warts in the 50's. They were warts. I suggest that those warts still exist and today's warts are truly dangerous to the nation. Weaponized justice system and open borders could literally take us down. Life was better in the 50's. Too bad you missed it.

 

A country that implodes from immigration?
This country is the way it is because of immigration. Immigrants built this country.
And without them, we could not create more wealth.
We don't have enough babies to sustain the growth our economy enjoys.

 

America has always been great for the go-getters.

 

You’re presumably old and white so of course you think it was better because you didn’t have the problems every other group of people did. I mentioned the vast number of issues that took place in the 50s multiple times and yet here you are with this nostalgic view of a not-so-great period in our history. I for one am thrilled I wasn’t around to see any of that.

 

Borders are less open today than anytime in history.
We have always had open borders. There's never been a wall or anything completely around the entirety of the USA.

I doubt there's much of anything on the East, West Coasts, Gulf of Mexico, or the border with Canada.

 

Why are you on my case? It wasn’t my idea I was responding to another poster who said it was a possibility.

I’m in production agriculture. If immigration ceased you would starve in a week. Immigrants are involved in the whole food production infrastructure from top to bottom. I work around immigrants from time to time. Most are a lot more enjoyable to be around than native born Americans.

But the immigration we are seeing now is not what we’ve had in our past. My ancestors came here lawfully. They were vetted. They weren’t put up in hotels, they had to make it work on their own. They didn’t come here with a bunch of undocumented people from all over the world, many from countries who are our enemies or certainly not our friends.

I don’t know what the likelihood is, but with the massive numbers of undocumented folks from countries and regions that historically hate America here now it’s certainly possible terrorism perpetrated by them could cripple our infrastructure and/or economy. This is not Ellis Island anymore.

We can pretend there will never be consequences to allowing unvetted enemies in by the thousands. But it’s a dangerous game.

Our debt based monetary system requires growth. That’s a problem. Kicking the can down the road with illegal immigration isn’t the solution. I’ll ask this. If immigrants are net positive to the economy and work and pay taxes that benefit local and state governments, why are places like Chicago and NYC not sending busses to the border to haul immigrants to their cities? Why are they complaining that immigrants are showing up in their cities? They should be ecstatic. Instead they are upset. Are they upset that all the benefits of immigration are not being retained in border states like Texas and instead they have to deal with more tax revenue and stronger economic growth?

You may want to think about this subject more deeply instead of just listening to appeal to emotion arguments on your TV. It’s far more complex than you’re post assumes.

Anyway, your fellow traveler introduced the idea of collapse from immigration, not me. Your beef is with him.