..... the numbers on the original Periodic Table of Elements (PToE) come from? Keep in mind, that at the time of the creation of the PToE, there were no advanced scientific equipment such as can be found in top dollar laboratories of today. No super microscopes, no super computers, no Theory of Relativity; yet somehow numbers just appeared and were assigned to 12 elements. Where did that very first number on the PToE (the one representing Hydrogen) come from? Hopefully, with all of the honest and highly educated people on this forum, someone will step up to the plate and give an answer to that/those questions above and provide empirical evidence to support their explanation.
Wrong again. Why? Because it properly belongs in the religion section of the PF. Numerology is a religious practice.
Unlike biblical myths, the history of chemistry is not only not vague and inconsistent, it's all out there for your perusal. You can research the chemists (or natural philosophers depending on how far you go back) to read about their research and probably even find their notes on how they made their discoveries and determined the elemental nature of some of those chemicals.
Going by memory they did it by relationships elements had with one another and as equipment got better they moved the elements they had put in the wrong spots, worked out how to work out the atomic mass of each elements, etc and then went looking for the ones that were missing (there were gaps and the table accurately predicted that they would exist). And this is still in the wrong forum. It is not religion you are just being dishonest again.
Theorized atomic weights. Though that eventually shifted to the modern convention of using atomic numbers. IIRC the first table we'd recognize today had 47 elements, not 12. They were discovering elements quite rapidly during the 19th century, so it varied from year to year and decade to decade. The observation that hydrogen will bond to just about anything.
To say that they did it by relationships is fine. What were they relating to? In other words, there had to be something as a primary model in which to make the comparison or form a relationship to. Now where did that primary number 1 come from. How was it derived? Not from relationships... do you homework and you will find out that it was an arbitrary number that was used as a primary model. Numerology is a religious function. Therefore this topic is in the proper segment of this PF. Prove me wrong, then I will personally ask the moderators to delete it or move it to what would be a more fitting segment of the PF. Till you prove me wrong on the numerological aspect of the Periodic Table of Elements and how numerology is a religious function, then deal with it.
I already have and have found that the original periodic table of elements was based on numerological manipulations and an abstract set of numbers were used in that original formulation of the PToE. Apparently you have not done your homework, else you have accepted the word of other people and have allowed yourself to be brainwashed into believing a lie.
Well, show us your sources and enlighten us, oh teacher of the divine will. And, then you can tell us what the original periodic table of elements, which you allege had 12 elements, has to do with the modern table in which the order of the elements is based on atomic weight and order of discovery. One question that does come to mind, however, is how do the noble gases know to be in the exact order such that they all appear in the right hand column? Oh, and since he's still alive, will Tom Lehrer ever update his fantastic "Elements" song to include all of those have been added in the last 50 years?
Well, no, like any good religionist, he looks for any hint of ignorance of a subject and then attempts to fill that ignorance with obfuscations and divinity. Much of early "science", or natural philosophy, was conducted on the premise that God's will could be found through experimentation, research, and logic. It's no surprise that early chemistry would have some, if not many, elements of numerology. Much like medicine today is still plagued by mysticism and "energy" healing. Oh, and prayer.
They have already been cited in another thread, but everyone was afraid to answer the questions and or refute the claims. But so you cannot say that I am refusing to provide you with the requested information (like so many non-theists are guilty of), here is a link to where it was first mentioned on this forum. Be sure to read all of it, including the sub-links. http://www.politicalforum.com/4455635-post14.html
If you have been reading for 5 minutes and have not seen the reference, then you are either an extremely slow reader else you are intentionally in denial. The Lewis Theory is mentioned at very near the top of the first page, just prior to that section called introduction. In that segment, numerology is mentioned . So it is becoming clear that you are intentionally denying the presence of that information.
The current IUPAC periodic table organizes the 118 known elements based upon selected properties of their atomic structure. The elements are displayed by increasing atomic number. The atomic number of each element is determined by the number of protons in an elements nucleus. The table accurately predicts the ability of elements in chemical reactions thus its use is almost ubiquitous within the science of chemistry. The IUPAC table as we know it today is dynamic in the sense that it will continue to be refined in a manner that reflects new discoveries within the discipline of chemistry. Why it is relevant to your anti-science diatribes is beyond me.
An an absolute textbook answer. But your input failed to address where that atomic number for the element hydrogen came from. Hydrogen was the first to be placed on the periodic table. I am impressed that you were good enough to place that (emphasized) text in your statement. Now how did the scientists who formulated the original periodic table make a count of the protons in the hydrogen atoms nucleus? How did the scientists of that day count the electrons in orbit around that nucleus?
The first experimental evidence concerning the nuclear structure of a number of elements was gathered by Henry Moseley. Moseley measured the wavelengths of the innermost photon transitions produced by a number of elements. It was found that the square root of the frequency of these photons increased from one target to the next in a linear fashion. This led to the conclusion that the atomic number does closely correspond (with an offset of one unit for K-lines, in Moseley's work) to the calculated electric charge of the nucleus, i.e. the proton number Z. Among other things, Moseley demonstrated that the lanthanide series (from lanthanum to lutetium inclusive) must have 15 members—no fewer and no more—which was far from obvious from the chemistry at that time. Niels Bohr obtained spectral frequencies of the hydrogen atom from which he was able to accurately determine the energy characteristics of hydrogen. The energy states of elements was first determined almost 100 years ago. Our understanding of atomic theory has increased dramtically since that time with the advent of increasingly sophisticated methodologies such as NMR, OES-ICP and Particle accelerators. Modern chemistry ain't numerology dude. Incorporeal, what is the relevance of atomic numbers to this thread?
In closing your first paragraph above, you state "Modern chemistry ain't numerology dude." You may not see it as numerology, however the foundation of Modern chemistry is built upon numerology. Nearly all of science is based upon the Periodic Table of Elements. Knowing where those numbers were obtained would perhaps change the opinion of some Theists with regard to science. One of the primary rules of scientific process is 'observation'. Please explain: how 'electrons' or 'protons' could have been 'observed' in the era in which the PToE was originally drafted? Please explain why the early scientists took it upon themselves to assume that it would be OK to violate one of their primary rules of scientific process to arrive at those numbers. Any matter (according to science) occupies space, has weight, and has duration. In occupying space, that matter must have height, width and depth; to have weight, the matter must be subject to the force of gravity; and for it to have sustainability, it must endure in time (regardless of the length of that time). None of those factors have been able ascertained to this date. No one KNOWS the weight, dimensions, or longevity of either an electron or a proton; YET all the scientists are willing to stake their lives and reputations on the alleged fact of the existence of these things that have never been seen (observed) or measured. All the scientists have is numerological manipulations contrived in such a way as to make it appear that they have accomplished the impossible. The impossible being the actual measuring of any electron or proton. Where did the numbers come from?
Dmitri Mendeleev is credited with being the creator of the first periodic table of elements. Mendeleev's periodic table described the atomic weights and valence of the known elements. The use of atomic weights and valence of the known elements allowed Mendeleev to predict the existence and properties of several elements that were unknown to the scientific world at that time. Although atomic weights have been replaced by atomic number in the modern IUPAC periodic table many of the notions regarding periodicity that Mendeleev's table depicts were correct. The mass of protons and electrons has been observed and quantified. The explanation of these principles is included in the general chemistry curriculums of most high schools. The whole premise of your posts is nothing more than hyperbole rooted in your ignorance of elementary scientific principles.
Definition: Numerology is the study of numbers, normally based upon the premise that numbers can reveal the future or hidden information - thus, numerology is usually a form of divination. Thus the making of predictions. Source of definition: http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/general/bldef_numerology.htm http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prediction pre·dic·tion (pr-dkshn) n. 1. The act of predicting. 2. Something foretold or predicted; a prophecy. pre·dict (pr-dkt) v. pre·dict·ed, pre·dict·ing, pre·dicts v.tr. To state, tell about, or make known in advance, especially on the basis of special knowledge. v.intr. To foretell something; prophesy. Where is the special knowledge regarding the numbers of the original PToE? Where did the numbers come from?
