Where is the left?

Where is the left ?​

~ Look in the mirror ...

 

Given that you are stuck on that thought and it seems to be VERY IMPORTANT to you, I am going to stop addressing your posts seriously and start having fun. Evidently you do not have an ability to have a serious conversation or understand what the other person is saying and thinking, even though I have made every effort to be as transparent as I can be.

as such, here is my answer (in jest) to your statement (bolded).

"I guess when I said that, I was thinking of you".

 

See the cat above.

How do you start a refinery? Create a chip manufacturing business?

We rounded up capital from investors.

Again, how would workers finance a chip manufacturing business?

Because someone would have to lend them quite literally millions of dollars to get the business started. Who is going to lend a janitor that much money?

And if the buyer doesn't qualify to work in the business? What if the worker-owner does a lousy job and deserves firing? What happens to their share?

Your model doesn't work for some times of businesses.

''Simple capital acquisition?"

Like I said... you're in wayyyy over your head.

You badmouthed me for starting a business that wasn't worker owned.

I didn't say I was opposed to workers owning businesses. You're making stuff up.

You posts and messages on this topic...?

 

That is some of the silliest left wing propaganda I ever heard.
- Democrats will give you better health care? The cardiac surgeon that saved my life in 2014 (before the Obamacare "mandate" took hold) now teaches. The "assigned" fee under the democratic system doesn't pay as well as teaching. So he doesn't do surgery anymore. I'm glad I had mine done before the Democrat system took over.
- Democrats will give you "lower" tuition costs? How's that? Biden's college debt relief means that colleges can charge whatever they want. Since PEOPLE won't have to pay... just THE GOVERNMENT... colleges can charge whatever they want.
- GoreBull Warming? Ok... you have me there. Democrats will pay for the phoniness.
- Increasinf elfare for irresponsible folks unable to earn teir own way? Yes... that's how Democrats buy votes.
- Republicans give tax breaks to everyone... like Trump's tax breaks that lowered ALL tax brackets and did things like make interest on education loans deductible.

 

Manual labor sure is. Good engineers? Physicists? Chemists? Not so much...

 

I realize you aren’t really interested in solutions. You have been quite clear on that.

I’m uninterested in fallacy whether it’s in print or gif media. Thanks for demonstrating your lack of ability to make an intellectual argument.

How do you create a business? Or how do you create a worker owned business? Many ways. I’ve told you several times.

Nobody is starting a refinery today because of non capital related barriers to entry. Government and market barriers. For chip manufacturing, let’s have a look at a company that supplies the technology and materials for chip manufacturing and makes chips that started down the employee owned path a couple years ago.

https://www.missouripartnership.com...ingredients-and-semiconductor-computer-chips/

https://www.brewerscience.com/brewer-science-announces-employee-ownership-program/

Here is a chip manufacturing that DID what you say can’t be done.

And why do you think you were the ONLY worker with capital? Why can’t workers with capital invest in their own business? Entrepreneurs do it every day.

By rounding up capital from workers/investors. Or by taking a non employee owned business and transitioning to employee owned like Brewer. It’s not complicated for people who actually understand business.

Read my posts. Why would someone have to be lent money to sell their own business?

If a group of WORKERS were going to start a business, why would the janitor go see the banker? I don’t know what alternative reality you live in, but few businesses consist of nothing but janitors. Why wouldn’t you send some WORKER from the business side of the proposed business to the bank?

Do you really think banks don’t loan janitors money anyway? There is no way you worked in business, economics or finance. You ask questions a third grader would find ridiculous.

Would you sell half ownership of your business to a partner that didn’t qualify to be part of the business? Why would anyone else?

The fate of the share of a terminated worker depends on how the business was set up. The options are limitless, but often hybrid vesting is used and a terminated worker would leave with their vested share or have it bought out by the other worker owners. Their un-vested share typically is distributed amongst the retained workers. It’s not complicated to anyone that knows anything about business.

I’ve offered ample evidence it certainly does. And is at this very moment. You have offered no evidence yet in any of your posts. Just fallacy mixed with bits of unsubstantiated opinions.

Yes. Simple capital acquisition is not the main barrier to entry for chip manufacturing or fossil fuel extraction.

No, I’m quite well informed on the matter. That’s why I’m able to post actual evidence instead of gifs and endless fallacious arguments.

I simply pointed out you had choices and chose to screw the worker in the manner you claim to abhor.

You say it’s not happening even though it’s happening and I can show examples of it happening. Even in sectors you say are impossible. If you aren’t opposed you should get on board. It’s the best solution to the problem you perceive. Do you want a solution?

Hmmm. More fallacy from you. I’m just reporting FACTS. Facts you can’t dispute or address intellectually. Sad.

 

Having the ability to observe results is not something the devout partisan is capable of. I am not criticizing dems for myself; I am fortunate to earn a good living. Its those the dems claim to care about the most who are affected by the egregious levels of irresponsibility dems are known for. Reps are not much better.

Personally, I love riding my R-1 through the canyons, going to the beach (There are a few clean beaches left) snowboarding in Big Bear, Golfing, hiking, off-roading, camping, etc. CA is beautiful and the weather is great. Limousine liberals also love life here. None of that changes the facts. Results speak for themselves. CA leads the nation in poverty in spite of having abundant resources and high taxes.

 

I observe the results where I live, and elsewhere, I just don't feel compelled to whine about it all day long. I have lived in 5 States, red, blue and purple, and I know there is no place that is 100% perfect.

 

Fine. Just know that every time you speak in opposition of government overreach, I will bring up your "whining" fallacy. In the end, this thread was more about unwillingness to engage in respectful discussion and you ended up being an example of that he was referring to. (Or whining about in your eyes)

 

You've said nothing at all which backs your claims that you take principals etc more seriously than the majority. Something about an ex-wife, but without any details.

Once again, if you backed your principals with your life - as claimed - your life would look VERY different to that of the average person's. So let's call this what it is .. just you engaging in a little vanity. You're no better (or worse) than the majority.

 

Actually, it was to discuss the fact that most posters here are radical RW and there are hardly anyone from the "left". I don't know if you are left or right, I just know you love to complain about the place you live in.

 

Technology is impacting this work, too. Engineers have CAD, and radiology has computers scanning imagines. Everyone is impacted to some degree.

It's going to get worse for many low-skill jobs. We should start thinking about what we do with people who don't have work.

 

I never have figured out you guys who have no clue and keep pretending you do.

 

You are welcome to provide facts, figures and intellectual arguments showing my errors at any time. The fact is all you have to offer is unsubstantiated opinions, fallacy (like the appeal to stone fallacy above) and gifs.

I’m very happy to let third party readers decide who has “a clue” and who doesn’t.

 

Quite a lot of STEM is still very hands-on, and not easily reproduced by technology. Medicine is one (and I include all of it, dentistry, allied health, etc. and radiological scans are only as good as their human interpreters). Engineering is still very dependent upon human eyes and minds.

Who is 'we'? Do you mean individuals personally impacted? If so, then yes we do need to start thinking about what we'll do with ourselves.

 

Me, too, and now I'm done wasting my time discussing this stuff with you.

 

There hasn’t been discussion. I’ve presented facts and evidence for my posts. You have posted gifs and endless fallacy.

For there to have been discussion you would have had to post evidence something I’ve posted is incorrect or posted evidence your unsubstantiated opinions were correct.

Isn’t it amazing how quiet you get when you find out a company did what you say is impossible?

 

You don't need as many engineers for projects like designing a new airliner if you replace drafting boards with CAD. We;re already having computers rather than radiologists read CT scans for lung cancer.

I'm going to push up daisies before it impacts us in a huge way.

 

You leave me shaking my head.

 

Irrelevant. What matters is you’ve demonstrated the bankruptcy of your opinions. They are unsupportable by facts or evidence. For that I thank you.

 

Who are you kidding?

 

The majority of threads in this section were started by left leaning forum members. I do not have a political party. Few are willing to have an honest, respectful discussion on political topics. Now you are making a claim that calls for the operation of my mind. You are not qualified to speak for my thoughts. I do not love that politicians exploit good people by promising to help the less fortunate, and then do the opposite once they have the control/money.

 

~ Best post in the place. It would be a nice grave marker when this thread dies ...

 

But you just said we need to start thinking about how it will impact us, and what we're going to do about it.

Care to explain?

 

There is little doubt that many jobs we consider "low skill" will go away. Some is obvious, like fast food workers. But even skilled jobs like carpenters, electricians, and such will be overcome by robotics. If you can generate a digital blueprint for a project, you can program robots to do it. But just as the Industrial Revolution created jobs by streamlining manufacturing, I believe the same will happen in our future.

I worked as an engineer at Boeing at one time. One of my colleagues was inundated with his assigned tasks but still managed to conceive, develop and produce a sophisticated, patented device in his own time. Now he'll have more time to do such things.

But even more significantly, irresponsible folks that drop out of school or wallow in mediocrity, will have to sit up, pay attention, and get with the program.