Which will rule the West in 50 years? Islam or Marxism?

you think islam will dissapear in fifty years or earlier? I doubt that very much.

 

Why? they are on a crusade to make everyone hate them as much as possible including massive numbers of other muslims , so either they will have to change or being exterminated and i don't think they are of the stock that changes easily . Fanatic groups that value violence as a means to their cause are quickly loosing pace as civilisation advances because there is no longer space for them, are you familiar with terrorism in Europe during the 70's ?

 

No, I'm not familiar with 70's terrorism at all.

Yes, they are hated but it won't mean the end of Islam as a religion. I don't think religion will dissapear anytime soon, and it may in facto always be with us.

 

Religion as a religion probably not but the extremist parts will have to be dropped and eventually top clergy will drop them , inquisitions in Europe were dropped because it was bad PR for the church and were losing big chunks of their fanbase .
During the 70's Europe ( Germany & Italy most but other countries as well) had anarcho-communist organisations that resorted to bombing and murdering , anarchist movement has largely declined because of them .

 

Oh, of course. I believe extremism will die down in islam too sooner or later, and very probable within fifty years.

 

I think that is why both Muslims and leftists have joined forces. They both pretty much stand for the same things, which is global tyranny, but are both arrogant enough to think that the other will vanish.

 

Only the Right is cognitively dissonant enough to claim to be for Individual Liberty while insisting on the coercive use of force of the State for purely religious moral laws, without any morals tests but only drug tests for the least wealthy in our republic.

 

You must be very young then. I enlisted in the military in the late 70's as a teenager. I remember all the bombings in Europe due to the fighting between the Irish and the English. Bombs blowing up restaurants and cafes, etc. Here in USA too. Sick groups like the Weathermen and Black Panthers were running amok in the 60's and 70's.

 

That's wishful thinking. Islam is getting more and more violent with each passing year. It is on the increase, not the decline. And I can pretty much guarantee to you that Iran will have nuclear weapons within 10 years (they are detonating weapons now in a team effort with North Korea) and will sell some to islamic groups like Hamas and Al Qaida, as well as to countries like Syria and Lebanon. In your lifetime, you will see at least a dozen nuclear weapons detonated before the West rises in anger and retaliates with extermination of wholesale groups of muslims. You will see bombs go off in places with access to shipping lanes like NY, Washington DC, London, San Francisco, and Miami.

 

I hope Iran will have their own Nuclear Weapons and other islamic countries also . Then maybe you will think twice before you poke your nose into other people's business .

 

You must hate muslims. The day Iran has nukes and uses one is the day she bears the full brunt of a frontal nuclear assault from USA. USA has 10,000 nuclear weapons with just under 6,000 active and operational at any given time. Of those 6K nukes we keep 2K on aircraft capable of reaching Iran, and 2K on subs capable of reaching Iran. USA would need perhaps 1% of those weapons to destroy every living being in Iran. Every city, every town, every site of military value. So yeah - in a way I am hoping Iran gets nukes too. She will definitely be stupid enough to use them, and then we can finally take some serious steps towards eradicating extremist islam in our lifetime.

 

No country would dare to use nuclear weapons , Albert Einstein was wrong this time . There wont be a nuclear war , never . Beucause this would be the end of the world if any country makes this mistake . You speak like small children , "my father could beat your father bahahah" , "my father is a wrestler and your father has no change" .
But things dont work in that way in real life , because my father has a 9mm Magnum . So using nuclear weapons on Iran is unwelcome by any country . This would cause large cracks and damage can not be repaired for both of side .

 

Okay then, what would you use instead?

 

1. Could you do liberals a favor? The right wing has been using the socialists, marxist card for the last 80 to possibly 110 years. It's getting old now, and it doesn't work. Can you think of something new?
2. That history is so wrong, for so many reasons. Progressives came before Liberals for starters.

 

I'd simply use moderate and extremist. Conservatism and liberalism are completely different things, it's an apples and oranges comparison.

Conservatism isn't even an ideology, it's a mindset and worldview, kinda like how marxism isn't an ideology either. Conservatism is just about preferring the known to the unknown, the tested to the untested, etc. And to prefer either no change at all, devolution (reactionaries) or gradual change (the most common kind of conservative) as opposed to revolution. It's about looking at history and seeing the value in the institutions that have survived the test of time and realising that they give stability and that cahnges to them ought to be taken in small steps and considered carefully.

Liberalism is an ideology based on freedom, quite simply.

extremism and moderation would be how moderately or extremely one goes about doing liberalism or conservatism.

 

I think I may have been explaining it really poorly then. When I'm using Liberalism and Conservatism, it's either about the beliefs, or what's new and what's old. I think that's what I was looking for.

 

partly true in that conservatism can only be based on something already established. But there are directions one can go towards other than liberalism, like socialism or fascism.

Conservatism isn't inherently extreme, nor is liberalism inherently moderate so I don't understand how you thought there.

 

Of course. I do agree. But here I'm talking about what's the new idea, and what's the old. For example, Regeanomics would be considered liberal. Why? Because it was a change from the New Deal mentality of the past 50 years. Liberal and Conservative in this case means what's a new idea.

 

very well, sounds good.

 

Now then. When I'm saying Conservatism, despite the fact in the 1980's it was a liberal idea, it became a conservative one. One that became extreme due to the lack of any challengers.

 

Do you mean that it becomes extreme be staying the same through time, or that it became gradually more extreme with time by continuing to go in a certain direction?

 

I vote for the misguided direction angle.

 

It becomes conservative over time. It also become extreme over time as well, depending on other factors.

 

^This is pretty much the thread right here.

Westerners have now reached the tipping point where they've accomplished so much that they've become bored and jaded and forgotten the values that made them great and free in the first place. They're somewhere on the left hand side of the Tytler Cycle:



So, like the idiots that they are, they will eventually vote themselves back into slavery (marxism). And then the cycle will start all over again at some point. Possibly after Islam conquers marxism. Which will happen if the two meet. Marxism always eats itself because it is a secular-based ideology. Belief in God (even a fanatical extremist one) always wins out eventually because the people pushing it have faith in something greater than themselves. Marxists have faith in nothing. Because they are typically materialist atheists. Thus, at their core, they cannot even justify their own existence to themselves. Because they believe life is meaningless. Which is why they try to create utopia on Earth. People who believe in a higher power always fight harder because they're not as concerned about dying. That's why the Islamists are so relentless.

It's unfortunate that the rational among us (conservatives / libertarians) were simply born at the wrong time in history and will not live another 100, 200, 300 (whatever it takes) years to see another period of freedom and prosperity. I think the Baby Boomers probably got the best era. From the 1950s to about the 1980s was really the peak of western society. At least in America.

Not true. It actually works better today than ever. If you believe in anything politically correct, you are technically marxist. Whether or not you realize it. Political correctness is the product of long-term cultural marxist social conditioning. It is the idea that all cultures/religions/beliefs/morals/etc. are inherently equal and just different. There is no better or worse, no right or wrong, no civil or savage. It's all just subjective. Most people today believe some form of this even if they are not on the left. That's how deep Karl Marx's dick is in the western world's ass from beyond the grave.

 

It's ironic that the boomers got the best that this country offered since they were the ones who started the process of wrecking it. At some point, they looked back at 5,000 years of human history and civilization and decided, "Heh, we can do better." So they proceeded to dismantle our civilization. I think it was Time Magazine a decade or so ago that had it's cover story, "Men and Women are different," a stunning new scientific discovery that had long been know before the boomers were thought of.