Who Was Lying, Gillard or Styant-Browne?

LOL... Yes they are directly what you said. Do you consider I am changing your quotes? Now you attempting to justify your stance, by saying I am representing your comments incorrectly.

Then elaborate and stop trying to justify your own stuff ups

YOU consider poverty can be eliminated...

Your words not mine.
Then you ramble on about how the rich can pay to change their own behaviour to hide it but the poor in part due to changes in mental health ( which you attribute some mental illness to) have no avenue for help.

LOL... read back yourself... YOU are trying to score political points of a subject, YOU obviously have no idea about and try and categorise it into 'neat little groups' of your own. The only real difference between the two of us, is that I would consider that the groups should be far more specific.

yes, nice little group their. So you can consider the working poor, but have very little understanding of how the category is compiled. yes a 'neat little group'

Actually, in your understanding of eliminating the poor, they can give all their money to the government, to pay for others to be treated for this poverty problem and be part of your 'nice little group'

My thoughts? I had far more respect for you before this attempt of scoring political points of a section of the community. I do not care where you say you live and what you say you do, this entire issue and your response show, you have no understanding of the poverty issue in Australia, and would attempt to score some points.

I always considered TV to ignorant of such issues, but you, I considered that you had some idea. You have stated you look at everything and consider it yourself, but this issue only shows you are obviously an ALP lead drone. In the words of BOB HAWK "...NO AUSTRALIAN CHILD WILL BE LIVING IN POVERTY", you seem to be as clueless as BOB was. He later admitted his mistake, you seem prepared to perpetuate it.

You should not have attempted to draw some point off something you are obviously ignorant of, with your own interpretations of comments made that are obviously not correct.

 

I hope this is the last time I have to say these things ... no IT IS the last time.

What are you talking about Gary? Do you know because I don't. I never said you changed your quotes. I am not trying to justify anything. Where do you see that in the quote above. Where did I say you are representing my comments incorrectly.

I said.

You don't debate, you debase.
You don't attack the message, you attack the messenger.

This is a perfect example though, thank you.

where on earth do I attribute changes in mental health to mental illness, that doesn't even make sense.
again, you say I am trying to score political points, you attack me, why, just tell me where I am wrong, tell me the truth then if you think you know it.

There are thousands of people trapped, if you don't have a bank account and a residential address you cannot get a pention, even if you are mentally impared. We rely on charities and good people to help, but with business sending jobs offshore by the thousands, and the average Australian supporting them by continuing not to notice and doing nothing about it. The number is growing. There is a shortage of rental housing so those fortunate enough to have property jack up the prices, even auctioning tennancy which is illegal. No care, just a chance to squeeze another $20 per week.

So the mentally impaired gets evicted, he is a little slow, nice guy, just doesn't understand. He goes to centrelink and tells them he has no where to live, they send him to a charity. They put him in a shelter, not a permanent address, he is lost and alone.

A young businessman meets a girl in a bar, a few drinks later they slip out and he gets a motel room. The girl is a little naive, he is a smooth talker. Hours later she wakes, goes home, never heard him leave. She is pregnant, she turns to drugs, she is weak, she is uneducated, she has no close family, her child becomes a burden, she leaves him on the door step of a hospital, her fault, her weekness, but not his, not the babies.

DOCS come in, he is put in foster care, shuffled from home to home. He gets cared for, he gets fed, some get love given to them, some have "love" forced on them, some break, some die, some run away.

Is that enough categories, yes I know these children, I know all about them.

 

Obviously, You proclaimed it as a derogatory statement, by Abbott. yet you can not disassociate yourself from your assumptions

No, precisely what you stated, again found to be lacking

And you are debating what Abbott stated or trying to debase him for comments you incorrectly interpret to a problem you have no idea about? LOL... Sorry I ask you a question from your clarification, and you ignored it. You simply tirade about how the rich do the same thing so it is nothing.

providing what message? You debase Abbott(yes I will throw your arrogant words back at you) on something you have no idea about in defence of a subject that actually has nothing to do with the OP and pretend to be a messenger of what? No, so far you have provided nothing to debate and I am sure you will provide nothing in the future for this subject.

yes, of your hypocrisy

Oh I am sorry, I have made a mistake of your comment. You proclaimed that people with mental illness have no avenue for help due to cuts in mental health care. I misread that. Simply due to the lobbing of both sides of government for that very funding, I am aware that your are very wrong. As the mental health funding has continued to grow, at a steady rate for the last decade as governments are made aware of the ever increasing issues. BUT that being said, funding is far short of demand. YOU equate the cut in health care funding, as a cut to the mental health budget. FACT is, this is incorrect.

But take the point, I made a mistake of that comment.

The truth of what? poverty? or your blatant attempt to score political points on something that you are oblivious to? It is you who started this and so far you who simply try and squirm about to justify your attempt to score of the pain of part of a community, against somebody in opposition. So far, nothing of any substance or even understanding of the problem. You are the one who thinks they have the answers, as stated

What message are you trying to deliver? So far all we have is your defence of stupidity with the support TV without even thought to the issue.

SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH IT.

Very good, you can read, try experiencing it sometime. The fact that numbers are growing due in part to the acceptence of such policies introduced by BOTH parties and perpetuated by BOTH parties, suddenly means Abbott has no credibility to this? I have stated all this many times throughout this forum for years and YOU along with other ALP supporters proclaimed that it is wrong. Now suddenly it is a problem. Thought your precious ALP was forward thinkers. So far, you all seem reactionary.

Yes, So what should the government do? Should they actually functionally build this person a house to live? with what money? or should they (as they do) attempt to provide the support of the department to get these people help? How many mentally ill people have you actually dealt with? I am not talking about those that are simply depressed ( I know it is not a menial issue) but those of with far more problems such as schizophrenia? Think you might have to spend more time trying to find a simple answer to that claim.

So tell me, what is your answer to helping these problems? when you simply would rather catagorise them into a poverty line of 30k or less. both these cases need totally different responses and you would rather just pile them into one little pile and blame the rich for being able to pay for their own problems. So nice neat big package, not a specific response that is needed.

Yet you proclaim to eliminate poverty with what? LOL....

Debating or debasing? So far, You have been caught out trying to use an issue to debase a person and to try and squirm from your claims, you attempt to defend an ignorant statement, by labelling people who will hold YOU to account.
So far all I see is you trying to debase everybody else as not being as great a person as yourself, with your continue vailed insults. If you want a real debate on the subject answer the questions of YOUR claims.

So far all I see is somebody who is destroying any credibilty he once had to justify the hypocrisy of his claims of others...messenger? No, Caught lacking and now squriming to leave it behind.

 

It doesnt detract from the fact that your response to what DV stated was a load of twisted back peddling foolish BS. It is quite simple Garry, you live in a delude world of throw away comments to try and get an extreme right upper hand.

 

LOL... again this BS coming from somebody Who does not comprehend what is quoted...LOL

Got anything to contribute other than the gross example of stupidity you wish to continue to show the rest of the world? or is it just your ignorance of trying to score political points of something you have not a clue about...LOL

your arrogance only goes to show your ignorance, So you should stop projecting your emphatic opinion, onto something that actually shows how ignorant you are.

 

I think we can ascertain someones socio-economic status and one who expects others to bow to the upper class, in monetary terms that is! In my mind there are 2 classes, those that respect all humans and those that only respect those with money. There are many wealthy people with a healthy outlook on humanity and there are others who are ego-centric numbskulls who think that money is the measure of success and should be a measure for the level of respect they should gain.......dream on dude. A guy who drives a merc or Beamer does not gain more respect from me over a guy who owns a VB commodore. It all comes down to character and mutual respect. I think your actually talking about the wealthy with regards to lying, cheating, stealing and embezzlement. They're the ones who would do anything immoral to maximize profit margins.

 

I think you are just an extreme right wing troll! It was quite easy to understand the context of DV's post. Your just want to project your shallow extreme right conservative view and would dispute and comment that doesn't support your deluded persuasion. Go back and read post I responded to. It's not hard to see how superficial you are!

 

LOL... yes it is easy to understand DV's post, it is not me who proclaims different. It would seem, You wanted to support his debasing of Abbott with said posts (score some political point) by assuming something of the quotes he provided, Just as DV did. He clarified, you just project your ignorance.

Your attempt to support your collaborator, is admirable. However, it is mistaken. You continue to attempt to score some point of the back of the poor by continuing to proclaim it is right winged or Liberal bias, or even ALP magic. Does not matter what side of politics your on, you are attempting to attribute something that both sides can not deal with.

and thus all this only goes to show your ignorance. You arrogance, at trying to score on this topic is simply stupid, yet you continue to attempt it. Credibility, is slipping down the sink hole.

So again, you support the claims made by DV, answer the question. How can you eliminate poverty? DV would like to classify them in to broad groups, thus ignoring the ones who are extremely bad off. You only provide your own bravado and arrogance, and attempted insult, only showing ignorance of the issue....LOL

LOL..pray tell what am I back peddling from? YOUR foolish attempt at insults, is not stating anything. So answer some questions, instead of trying to squirm your way out of the stupidity of your ignorance.

 

I was going to say go back and read the post, please don't, you will confuse yourself further. Abbott is an extreme right wing nutjob who does not care about the poor, he'll only do and say little things here and there to cast his political net a little further.........there I debased him.....actually Abbott debases himself we just support him!

 

I`m actually talking about our PRIME MINISTER, and her possible association with cheating, stealing and embezzlement, she`s already covered the "lying" aspect herself.

 

LOL... tell me, in all your so called wisdom, what is the ALP doing about poverty? At least Abbott admits the problem and also some of the issues around them. YOU only stupidly try to assert different perceptions of his comments.

But hey, you know how to deal with it, let everybody into the secret.

Who cares if you debase him, that is all you seem to have, and so far, your credibility only stands about as high as the usual drones of the ALP. Lead by the nose, with inability to think for yourself.

So go right ahead and debase him, it only stands to show, how low you are to attempt a political point score of a issue you obviously have no idea about.

 

I think many of us have recognised other liberal political figures that would fulfill the oppositional leaders role with dignity, class, integrity and importantly with the all Australians in their hearts not just the rich. Abbott is broadly seen as a dodgy character. This guy should be leading in the leadership stakes re: polls by a mile, but little old Julia who apparently told a lie and has received a smashing for it, is still neck and neck. This says it all in terms of how the Australian people see the deceptive and ego centric nincompoop......there I debased him again. Abbott is a clown.....there I debased him again!!

 

LOL... so you have nothing then.

I thought in your mind...

Apparently you only respect money, as it is obviously not people.

 

Absolutely senseless!

 

yes, nothing

 

Thought so

 

You would appear to be hopeless at creating strawman topics as well.

 

I never attempt to Garry, but it is quite ironic that you would mention this....lol! I get this sneaky suspicion that that is what we are dealing with.

 

MMM... Look again at the OP and then tell me how anything in this thread that YOU, DV or me, has anything to do with the topic. It does not. So if it is strawmen as we are, DV seems to be the only one that has been able to create one. You just seem set on collapsing any respect anybody has for you, with your style of comment... LOL

 

There is always digression in all debates, but not a problem when it still maintains sense. You however use senselessness to argue a position to confuse the whole debate..........this is what you call a strawmans argument, get it right! I don't expect respect and pretend to be some guru, I'm simply someone who is proud of my country and loves people. I happen to become annoyed by people who are superficial and are whinging whining negative nincompoops. Yes, I love arguing politics like all of us on here. You learn some things either side of the divide

 

Digression is one thing, your position is not a digression but totally irrelevant and off topic. strawman completed

as long as it goes your way that is, isn't it?

LOL... no it is not what you call a strawman. Straw Man: An argument made in refutation that misstates the argument being refuted. Rather than refuting the real argument, the other side constructs a man of straw, which is easy to knock down and makes the other look bad. which is completely what you AND DV are doing at every opportunity.

LOL... you don't expect respect. No you demand it and yes you do believe, that your view is the only one.

You have already shown with your rebuttals to a post that has nothing to do with you that you expect others to honour what you say ( all be it nothing). You expect others to take YOUR words on face value, without collaboration as being truthful, even your sig shows it.

Don't try delude yourself and everybody around about how humble your are, it is a fallacy your own words expose for the liberal way you wish to deal with the truth.

So far all I see is you playing the victim with the old 'out of context' and 'underlying meaning' which is the what you do when called to answer something that is clearly wrong.

Now you are complaining that others are creating a strawman argument because you have no answer...LOL talk about 'superficial whiners'

What a poor victim you are.

 

OMG.......lmao!!. I couldn't be bothered arguing detail with you, but a strawmans argument is not one dimensional and your long out drawn responses are an attempt to achieve this very thing!

 

LOL... have nothing again... You poor thing. Problem is with your complaint of strawman argument... I agree I have perpetuated both yours and DV's making me a contributer to your strawman argument.

LOL... Look at the OP... it is not me who made the convoluted argument... I just answered your BS.

 

Description of Straw Man

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

 

LOL... Yes, we strawmen need to stick together, don't we. LOL