Why don't men want the Covid vaccines? How should we reach them?

I agree, what you say is certainly part of it. I think that part of it is spread evenly , no matter what party you are in.

I also think there is part of it that is disproportionately skewed to Trump supporters for reasons I have already mentioned in this thread. It’s complicated, but I’m pretty sure Trump is involved in the mix.

 

Which is why I lament the lack of any comprehensive public utility ad campaign on TV and radio and the Internet to educate people about these vaccines. We never had that, like I've seen in other countries. The closest we got was an ad made by Google. No governmental campaign, which is mind-boggling.

So, with the lack of official guidance and clarification, the public is left at the mercy of anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists who spread lies such as the vaccine will change your DNA. Well, it won't.

 

I don't read all posts. I have a long Ignore list.

 

Like you, I don't how many follow this path but I personally know two female seniors who refused the vaccine solely because of Trump. They even had a vaccine weekend at their apartments so nobody had to schedule appointments or go anywhere. Two of their neighbors died of COVID and it didn't seem to phase them at all. One of the two has called the newspaper and local mayor because she's ticked off they won't open the community room. She doesn't know how to use a smartphone or the internet so the isolation (what she feels is deliberate torment) is really weighing on her. In short, she's rather be exposed to COVID than locked out of socialization. Both are diehard Trump fans and they think he lied about getting the vaccine in January.

 

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this so close to home. I can only imagine how concerned you must be for your son and his family.

The good news is he has mild symptoms. I am assuming your granddaughter does as well. For now, I encourage you to hold onto the fact that many people recover from the virus.

We may not know why people make the choices they make. I try to live my life in such a way as to not pass judgment but to be understanding. The most loving thing we can do is honor someone else's choices even when we don't understand them or agree with them.

I'm going to hold onto the hope that your son and his family will recover with no complications. I also wish your heart some peace. Please feel free to PM if you just need to vent or have someone listen.

 

My apologies. I wasn't saying that you are passing judgment. Not at all! I have two kids myself. I am usually very calm but all bets are off when is comes to my kids. Like you, I'd rather have a "label" than not do everything in my power to protect them.

 

Darn. I'm sorry to hear that. Here are some principles for the care of Covid-19 positive persons with symptoms that are mild and don't require hospitalization:

Count 12 days from the start of the very first symptom. If nothing bad happens by then (like a turn for the worse, more often seen days 7 to 10 but possible days 5 to 12), then it won't. Chances are it won't; I'd assume he is not older than 40, right? Mortality for that age group is very low.

Tell him to talk to his doctor (if he doesn't have one, seek consultation through a practice that has telemedicine) about support measures that are unproven but largely harmless and there is some (low quality) evidence that they may actually help to a certain degree. (What follows is not to be construed as medical advice as it would be unethical for me to dispense advice over the internet without examining the patient, but is for information purpose only so that you know what to discuss with a doctor; whether or not he should take these, is a decision between him and his doctor).

These would be enteric coated aspirin 325mg per day which is the most controversial thing I'm saying because it does carry a risk of bleeding but there is some evidence it might decrease the likelihood of complications by 43% for hospitalized cases; not as clear for mild cases but some protocols and some studies do recommend it. If someone doesn't want the bleeding risk then it's OK not to take aspirin. Some sources recommend only 81mg per day.

These are truly harmless and maybe they help to a small degree: quercetin 250mg twice a day, vitamin C 500 to 1,000 mg twice a day, zinc picolinate 50mg two to three times a day, and melatonin 10mg nightly.

Rationales for these (in simplified terms): aspirin decreases platelet aggregation - thus decreasing micro-blood clots that can derail organs - and reduce inflammatory over-reaction. Quercetin + Vitamin C function as zinc ionophores, pushing zinc into the cells. Zinc inside cells may play some role in inhibiting viral replication. Melatonin reduces interleukin expression, making it less likely that a cytokine storm will happen. Again, these are unproven and somewhat theoretical although some studies have shown some benefits but often with methodological issues. The reason I'm for them is that they are harmless, cheap, over-the-counter, and readily available from any pharmacy or even Amazon.

All of the above is optional. It's fine too, in people with no risk factors, to do nothing, and just monitor pulse ox, temperature, and hydrate a lot and use fever medication as needed.

Vitamin D, controversial in this phase. Too late to actually do some good. It's helpful to increase the vitamin D level but this is accomplished over several weeks so it's best done before someone catches the infection, and if not done by now, it's not its acute use for a few days that will make much of a difference, in my opinion. But for those who do want it, 4,000 units per day is a reasonable dose (while this lasts; this dose can be detrimental in the long run if it pushes the vitamin D level too high; going down to 2,000 and measuring vit D level is advisable).

A lot of attention was given to ivermectin. At one point I was for it. At this time I'm no longer for it. Is it possible that it helps? Sure. Is it proven? No. Can it have detrimental side effects? Yep. So, all things considered I'm not for it, now. Definitely, no azithromycin (unless there is secondary bacterial infection, and there is no other condition or medication causing QTc prolongation) and most definitely, no hydroxychloroquine. If your son sees a doctor who recommends hydroxychloroquine, change doctors.

Very important is to get a pulse oximeter. Measure pulse ox at least 3 times per day. Head to the hospital if pulse ox ever falls below 94 (that is, 93 and lower) or there is fever at or above 103 or there is progressive shortness of breath. The importance of having a pulse oximeter is that the most reliable sign of a turn for the worse is a drop in pulse ox below 94, and weirdly enough, in Covid-19, such drops can be asymptomatic and go unnoticed, thus the need to actually measure oxygen several times per day until a person is off the woods (until day 13).

Lots of hydration. Sleep belly down (helps opening up and oxygenating the lower lobes of the lungs). Do respiratory exercises. If he can get one of those devices that you need to blow into a mouthpiece to make a little ball go up a column, that's ideal. If not, then at least 10 sets of maximum inhalation and exhalation once per hour.

Quarantine all positive people in the family until all of these happen: no fever (with no Tylenol or Ibuprofen) for at least 24hrs, all symptoms improving, 10 days minimum after first symptom.

Anybody taking care of them should wear N95 masks (or at least KN95, hopefully not counterfeit) and when the caretaker person is around, the sick person needs to wear a facemask too, which could be an ASTM level 3 facemask. The caretaker should avoid touching one's face/nose/eyes/mouth while caring for the sick person and should wash hands vigorously with soap and warm water for at least 20 seconds after care is over and before using the hands to remove the mask. Remove the mask by the straps, don't touch its surface. A new mask should be worn next time care is provided and the first one should be either discarded, or kept aside in a labeled paper bag for 7 days before it's re-used (virus on the surface will be dead by then). Open windows to ventilate.

If any of the sick persons has significant risk factors (old age, diabetes, hypertension, obesity, sleep apnea, immunocompromised states, and some others) then even for mild cases, it is worth thinking of monoclonal antibodies. The best utilization of these is for non-hospitalized mild cases or hospitalized moderate cases in people at a very high risk of complications. If that's the case, the earlier they are used, the better, thus the importance of early consultation with a competent physician.

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All of the above makes some sense. But if your son hasn't taken Covid-19 seriously thus far, maybe he won't want to do any of the above, regrettably. I'd draw the line at the pulse oximeter. This is the most important thing to do, to make sure there is no worsening that goes unnoticed. One of the biggest factors that lead to a bad outcome, is that many people only go to the hospital once they are too far away on the road to a turn for the worse. This is an absolute: pulse ox below 94? Head to the hospital ASAP.

If you have any other questions, just ask.

I know how concerning this is for a parent and a grandparent, and no, it's no paranoia. Paranoia is the fear of a delusional, non-existing danger. The danger of Covid-19 is very much real so this doesn't qualify for paranoia. Being afraid of a real danger is prudence, not paranoia.

I wish the prompt recovery of your son, his wife, and his children. Chances are overwhelming that at their age, they'll be fine.

 

Two other details: the caretaker should also wear eye protection (goggles, ideal; if no goggles are available, at least a face shield).

Pepcid 20mg twice a day is another harmless (in the short run) over-the-counter medication that supposedly has some viral replication inhibition properties. Optional, too.

Of course, if your son's entire family has Covid-19 and neither one is in need of more advanced care (if his family is made of his wife and three kids and if I understood correctly all got it) then there is no need to wear any masks at his home or anything. Just, practice contactless deliveries of groceries and medicines until the end of the minimum of 10 days after the first symptom, provided that by then there is no fever and all symptoms are improving.

 

so true... but I have noticed since it leaked that Trump secretly got vaccinated while President, that many more of the Republicans I know are also changing their minds on the vaccine and getting it

it is weird watching people that were so anti-vax, flip on a dime like that, but it is a good thing

 

Kind of amazing when you think about it I would venture to say it's probably the largest reason why people are hesitant to take the vaccine I don't think it was so much politics or Trump people have always been rather skeptical of vaccines

 

Yes, there was talk of the Trump CDC of doing an ad campaign for the vaccines, and they got into endless discussions on how to do it, whether to involve famous actors and athletes and so forth, but then it never got off the ground. The current Biden CDC is talking about it too, still nothing.

It's up to regular people to do it... like this family from England; their parody song is more efficient than any campaign. I hope this would play everywhere.

 

My 18 year old brought covid home to the whole family in late July. We are all better and 9 months later, I still test positive for the antibodies. It has been good for us because since September, we have been able to visit grandparents and take care of my 89 year old mother in law without worrying too much that we will expose them. We even got together for Christmas since 5 of the 9 of us had already had the disease. Have your son give blood and let them test it for antiodies. You save lives and you get peace of mind that you are not vulnerable. For a while, they were begging me to come every month to donate plasma for the antibodies for research and antibody therapy. I think they have all they need for now and just want blood.

 

Trump flipped first.



https://www.insider.com/how-donald-trump-became-an-anti-vaccinationist-2019-9

 

Another issue to consider people do not trust big pharma they've been skeptical and this long predates Trump it doesn't help for instance if they enjoy special protection against lawsuits from any damages that may arise as a result of their products I mean that sure doesn't inspire any confidence

 

I wonder why Trump did not show a video of himself getting the shot.... did he freak out and did not want it made public? many fear needles Donald, it's ok

 

My gut tells me that he lied about getting the vaccine. I mean, this is a guy that always has to be the center of attention and he suddenly wants to not be seen getting the vax? He may have done it but I doubt it.

 

I look the other way. No problem.

 

Women are particularly susceptible to fads and trends. If some fashion magazine features a celebrity wearing an inner tube around her neck women all over will start doing the same. Men are more likely to be indiviudals. They prefer to out-do one another, not follow along. They also like to know if what they are about to do makes sense. "Sense", another thing women are less likely to possess. The bottom line is that men don't make a move unless they are confident that the results will be what they really want. Men shop around before they decide whereas women just want what other women have and the consequences make no difference to them. Just look at botox and silly-cone.

 

not sure that is true based on the Trump followers, once they learned Trump secretly took the vaccine, they decided to follow Trump

 

Trump thought taking the vaccine made him look weak... so hid it, and if he acted like a baby while taking it, of course he would never make that video public

 

I can agree with that. Judging your decision based upon the consequences of what others of prominence have done is one thing but following the airheads at the beauty parlour despite the consequences is another.

In the OP it states:
"Women are accepting the Covid-19 vaccines at a rate 10% higher than men, despite the fact that women have had more side effects to the vaccines than men ..."

And just look at the risk for cancer in botox, silly-cone, and fillers, yet women flock to get an appointment for transplants and injections of the stuff even though the price for the operation means she'll be eating macaroni & cheese for the next two years.

 

the botox one really gets me, that is crazy, do they know what that really is? it's the Botulinum toxin, injected into ones skin

 

My wife and I have shared this discussion a million times without finding any answers or pausable explanations to the question. My wife usually finishes the discussion by saying, "Oh well, that's women!". Thank god she's the one to say it and not me