Why don't men want the Covid vaccines? How should we reach them?

You may not want her to read post 70...lol

 

Why in the hell should we have to cater to one gender over the other? Aren't we men supposed to be able to read and injest and process information just like women?

I say: present the facts, make the information available and if a person doesn't get vaccinated and then dies, well then, by G-d, it's his or her own g-ddamned fault.

Seriously, we have been dealing with the worst medical crisis since long before the pandemic of 1918 (think: bubonic plague) and people are getting luxury pure in the USA: they are getting offered high quality vaccines for free. I see no reason to coddle them or beg them to do something to help themselves. Really, I am sick and tired of having to get down on the level of the ****ed-up MAGA crowd that believed all this trumpian bullshit (oh and BTW, he and Melania were quietly vaccinated) and now are too proud to admit that they were very, very wrong. So, as far as I am concerned, let their pride kill them.

It's time to stop concentrating on the "class idiots" out there and concentrate ourselves on the high flyers who actually care about our world, about their fellow human beings, about life and being healthy.

In other worlds: **** THEIR FEELINGS.

 

That's a political opinion and you're entitled to it. Me, I'm talking from the standpoint of public health. Being a physician, that's my main concern. So, yes, I do want to engage in outreach even to those who subscribe to the political opinions you're criticizing in your post; and if men are less likely to accept the vaccine, then specific outreach should be tried.

And by the way, it's for everybody's good. The more people get vaccinated, the fewer variants, and the smaller the odds that one of the variants will significantly evade the vaccines and/or re-infect people. So, no, ignoring this crowd you're against based on politics, can actually come back to bite you.

 

Valid point but often misunderstood. Protection against lawsuits is essential to a vaccine-producing business. The issue is: while regular medications are given to hundreds of thousands, vaccines are given to billions. So, if a medication has unexpected rare side effects, just a few people out of those hundreds of thousands will have them, and any lawsuits will be manageable and won't break the business. But with vaccines, even very good ones, with very rare side effects that are not the fault of the manufacturer (because all medicines and vaccines known to men have side effects including over-the-counter ones), because they are given to billions of people, rare as they may be, they will still result in a significant number of people. If all sued, the vaccine-producing company would go out of business. So it is standard to extend lawsuit protection to the companies that do want to make vaccines, otherwise we'd have a world without vaccines because no CEO in his right mind would want to go into the vaccine-making business. So, there's a clear choice here:

A - Extend lawsuit protection so that vaccine-making is viable and the world gets rid of scourges such as measles, smallpox, polio, etc.
B - Deny lawsuit protection and see no company making vaccines any longer, and watch for the inevitable return of these scourges

If then a child or grandchild of yours dies of measles or polio or gets paralyzed for life, remember the consequences of choosing B.

Lawsuit protection for vaccine makers is standard and understood in all developed countries in the world. It's not just in America. It's done by necessity, and it is entirely justified.

 

Thank you, I see.
Can't pregnant women sue? Seems I read they could, at some point.

While your explanation is perfectly rational and logical, probably masses of people dont understand that, but then again.....likely vast numbers are unaware such legal exemptions even exist.

I'm considering the vaccine but still rather cautious and hesitant. Chances are, i've had covid already.

 

Unfortunately, for many people, accepting or rejecting vaccination has nothing to do with rationality.

 

The low flyers don't count as fellow human beings?

 

Also, I was 53 and overweight and had mild symptoms just like my 18 year old. My 24 year old was assymptomatic and my 49 year old wife had nausea and spent 5 days in the hospital for it.(She is in my avatar.) She had mild hair loss for 3 months, but is completely fine now. I figured I should give you the full story besides "we are all fine now". My 22 year old nephew got it at Texas A&M in October and had mild symptoms.

 

You're welcome. Yes, masses of persons don't understand what I do, given that I'm an MD/PhD with expertise in Immunology and Virology (and that's just a fact of life, similar to the fact that I don't know much about natural gas lines, and when I have a project like I current do, of installing a gas heater for my swimming pool, I hire a licensed gas line specialist).

But my professional knowledge is precisely why the bulk of my posting is to try to debunk lies and conspiracy theories about vaccines and to try to clarify and educate our fellow posters here (because I do care). But I'm appalled that this is not done more systematically by the authorities. Just as much as you're seeing my points, other people would see these points too, if only they were told. Instead, the authorities allow the quacks and kooks to lead the conversation, and one of the consequences is that vaccine acceptance is not great.

I see a lot of my posting here as a public announcement effort and part of my mission in life, which is to ease pain and suffering brought about by diseases.

By the way, I'm not employed by Big Pharma. I'm employed by a University and a University Hospital. I do acknowledge that Big Pharma gets abusive sometimes, but I also do recognize that without them, we wouldn't have most of the medicines that treat so many diseases and wouldn't have vaccines. We live in a capitalist society (thankfully) and yes, businesses want to make money, and yes, some sensible regulation is appropriate, but no, I do not overly demonize Big Pharma because I understand their importance to society.

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I would still advise you to get the vaccine. If you've had Covid-19 already, do know that the immunity delivered by the vaccines is actually superior to the immunity delivered by the natural infection, regarding the new variants. Given for example the propensity of the P.1 variant to re-infect people, and its bigger ability to attack younger people. the more protection the better, which is why the CDC does advise people who have had the natural Covid-19 infection to still get vaccinated.

I'm not aware of an exception of the PREP act for pregnant women, but then, I'm no lawyer. I'm not exactly privy to specific exceptions that might be explored by a lawyer. We have some lawyers here (the poster known as @Death is one) so maybe we should get a lawyer's input. I know what I know and I'm not shy about my knowledge but when I don't know something, I have no problem deferring to those who do.

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The PREP act stands for Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act and it confers lawsuit immunity to Covid-19 vaccine-making companies until 2024.

The Feds do have a program to help and compensate people harmed by vaccines. It's called the CICP (Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program). The program provides up to $50,000 for lost wages and out-of-pocket medical expenses stemming from a side effect of the Covid-19 vaccines, with a cap of $370,376 for a surviving family member of someone killed by one of the vaccines.

There is another program for other vaccines (not Covid-19) called VICP, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. They have delivered $4.4 billion in compensation.

 

@FatBack in continuation to what I was telling you, you believe that you may have had Covid-19 already and this is one of the reasons you're hesitant to get the vaccine. Well, there's a simple way to know: you could do an antibody test. If you're negative, then there's an even bigger point to make about the wisdom of getting the vaccine.

FatBack, these vaccines are VERY efficacious and VERY safe. Look, they are causing severe side effects in about 0.0008% of recipients, last I checked, and the fatalities brought about by vaccines were about 0.00002%. Compare that to 1% to 2% of fatalities caused by the virus itself, and very important because 98% to 99% don't die, is to realize that it's been estimated that the tardive complications from Covid-19 even for survivors and even for people who had mild disease, hit up to 30% of people one way or the other. Among the possibilities, heart inflammation, brain fog, pulmonary fibrosis with permanent shortness of breath, chronic fatigue, kidney insufficiency, and a propensity to develop blood clots that can lead to strokes, pulmonary embolism, and limb amputations.

Make no mistake, this is a very aggressive virus, and its rate of complications is hundreds of thousands bigger than the rate of complications for the vaccines.

Think of it: if the vaccines cause 0.0008% of serious side effects, it also means that they are 99.9992% safe.

Think of these odds in your daily life.

Let's say, someone tells you, "this road you take to go from your home to your job is 99.9992% safe. The odds that you'll suffer a serious accident traveling through this road are only 0.0008%."

Would you say "OH MY GOD that's such a HUGE risk; I shall quit my job and stay secluded forever at home because I'm not about to take a road that could maim me in 0.0008% of cases!!!!"

Huh, no, you'd say "yay, that's pretty safe" and you'd gladly keep commuting, right?

Now think of all medications you take in life for all sorts of ailments, from a little headache to, say, high blood pressure.

ALL of them have side effects that are WAY more frequent than 0.0008%... go to Drugs.com, click on the list of side effects for each medication you take, click on the lists for professionals which have the specific percentages. You'll see that your drugs have various side effects in... 1%, 3%, 5%, 9%, 12% of people and so on and so forth.

But you keep taking them if you need them, right? So why are you hesitant in taking something much safer that only has serious reactions in 0.0008% of cases???

 

The individual takes all the risks in this set-up so why wouldn't some people be anti-vax? If vaccine makers know they can't be sued, they don't have to cross all the "t"s and dot all the "i"s. I'm not suggesting they would maliciously release an inferior product but the *idea* of them being absolved straight out the gate is a legitimate to be hesitant.

 

Well, I've explained why.

And no, they are not cutting corners due to this, and OF COURSE they wouldn't maliciously release an inferior product, because they still need to earn FDA and CDC approval, and they still need to compete against the other vaccine makers. So, they try to make the BEST product they can, regardless of this lawsuit exemption. Capitalism involves competition.

And no, it's NOT a reason to be hesitant, once you understand the rationale behind it. And like I said in another post, to compensate for that (the exemption), the Feds did start two programs to help those who do get harmed by vaccines.

The individual takes all the risk? No, the individual is being PROTECTED!!!! The big risk is the one brought about by the virus itself, hundreds of thousands of times more dangerous than the vaccines.

Here in America we have extremely efficacious, extremely safe vaccines, and they are now available to ALL adult Americans FREE OF CHARGE, and people still complain...

It's mind-boggling.

 

That's because they ain't giving me a ride to the vaccine site and they ain't paying me nothing to take it.

Joke.

 

I wasn't trying to make you upset, @CenterField. I've read your posts and understand the rationale. I never said it was malicious. In fact, I said I don't believe it to be malicious.

I know several anti-vaxxers. I know people, including myself, that have had vaccine injuries. The choice is very difficult for many people (which is the topic of this thread). I am not on the call list yet so I still have a little time to try to sort this out.

And, I wasn't complaining (or didn't intend to sound that way). I've repeatedly thanked you for your contributions to these discussions. I'm not sure what more I can say other than what I've already said. I'm sorry that you interpreted that as me being ungrateful and complaining.

 

I know an anti-vaxxer who is anti-everything in the establishment (religion, journalism, sociology, law, medicine, finance, government). There is something wrong with him, as he admits, but it's also true that he won't wear a mask or socially distance and yet he never gets sick. Not physically, at least. He takes a lot of vitamins and homeopathic and home remedies. I don't lecture him about his choice.

 

I was talking about people in general, MJ Davies. Don't take it personally. Sometimes I use all caps for emphasis. I know it looks like yelling. I should use bold or underline instead, but sometimes to make it faster I just hit the caps lock key.
I do understand your circumstances.
If you do decide to get the vaccine for you and yours, I'll consider that all my posts have fulfilled an important mission.
I sincerely hope that you'll get the vaccine. I'd hate for you to catch Covid-19 instead and get a nasty consequence of this dangerous virus.

 

Covid-19 has the ability to defeat vitamins and homeopathic and home remedies. This guy just got lucky, so far. Keep following his life. I'm quite sure that at some point he will pay a steep price for his choices. Sure, he has a right to these choices... but because of not trusting Medicine, he may for example skip PSA checks and colonoscopies, and end up dying a painful death from prostate cancer or colon cancer.

In plain 21st century, not trusting Medicine, sorry, is a choice, but in my opinion, it's a hugely dumb one. The Darwin Award Committee thanks him for his choices.

 

Oh he drives me nuts, don't worry. But he's an unemployed (thought Bitcoin-wealthy) hermit, estranged from his family, with no social life, and almost no one will notice his passing. I'd say it's his loss, but the truth is, he has no zest for life anyway, and I don't argue with him anymore.

 

Though you may joke sadly they're probably is as percentage who do harbor that mentality

 

Wait, I am not criticizing their political opinions. I am criticizing their ability to think as reasonable adults. At some point in time we should expect of adult human beings to behave like responsible adult human beings. I am ****ing sick and tired of catering to people who have subscribed to a number of big lies and then expect the rest of us to haul their sorry asses out of the schlamazel as soon as they realize that they are in trouble because of their own stupidity and ignorance and stubbornness and unwillingness to apply reason even it it means saving their lives or the lives of those whom they claim to love. They want to be that mindbogglingly stupid? Well then, let them. And if they want to die, then let them.

I have agreed with you from the very beginning that this is a medical issue, not a political one. For that very reason, I began the (beyond any shadow of a doubt) largest, most visited, most information filled thread that PF has ever had in it's history:

Tracking the COVID-19-Virus in Germany, the USA, Italy and other hot spots in the world | PoliticalForum.com - Forum for US and Intl Politics

But this does not mean that I have to cater to peoples' stupidity. One would think that after 15 months of suffering through this horrible worldwide pandemic, people would finally wise up. But nooooooo, some just have to hold onto their hold hatreds and grudges and resentments and the like. So, pfffft.

Also, not all who are suddenly anti-vax are on the right and part of the big-lie trumpian part of all of this. A smaller contingent is also on the extreme left and I criticize them every bit as much, and for exactly the same reasons.

In conclusion: it is what it is.

 

@CenterField,

Good morning,

I received my first dose a couple of weeks ago. As I'm currently living in Europe, it was the Astra Zeneca; no side effect whatsoever, only a 99°F temperature at midnight the day i got it.

I'm 1000% pro-vax; but I'd be interested to know if there are any data yet on number of people who got the virus within, say, 15-20 days of receiving the jab, first dose and /or full vaccination.

Thanks

 

Just to make things crystal clear for everyone: I'm not expecting there could be virus cases happening because of the vaccine, but well despite the vaccine!

 

What if, as some data is suggesting, there are virus cases BECAUSE of the injection?