~why johnny (atheist) can't beleive ~ and the cure~

LOL...bolding above mine ....what a laugh ...can't count the times that when it's pointed out some crime or atrocity a Christian committed the Christians immediately, in unison, scream, "they aren't really Christians".........their lame excuse ...and even though it was there jesus who said no one is without sin they insist that anyone who commits a sin is "not really a Christian"...

 

Agreed, but then I'm against any form of governance which restricts people from doing things that are between consenting adults or considered "victimless" crimes.

 

If I use a substance as a sacrament including but not limited to smoking ganja or ingesting psychotropic chemicals including organics like mushrooms, cactus flowers, drink strychnine or other poisons or handle seven ft timber rattlers, its none of the governments business. However uncle sam's bureaucratic and judicial goons have raped the constitution many times and the ban on religious sacrament is just another example of the governments criminality in this area.

I would ignore mans law if I needed or wanted to use these substances and practices, because natural law* supersedes positive law, and jail is not as bad as losing ones soul. Also, I am of the opinion that psychotropic substances aid ones ability to understand 'dimensional reality'**. The use of psychotropic sacraments ingested in a controlled sitting*** are as safe compared to other powerful medicines such as morphine or even weaker opioid analgesics. I am a proponent of these types of sacrament because in some cases are the only way for 'non DR intuitive' people to understand the supernatural realm. A disclaimer is needed ; I am not advocating unsupervised use of illegal substances for recreational purposes. Also DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME! As my notes show any drug or practice listed above can have potential deadly and other highly dangerous side effects, going to jail, even if its unjust for a long, long time is one of them.

* Natural law 1. law of morality: a law of morality believed to be derived from human beings’ inherent sense of right and wrong, rather than from revelation or the legislation produced by society 2. philosophy belief in universal justice system: the belief that general laws of nature can be applied as a system of justice for all societies, regardless of their individual culture or customs.

** I am writing a book (isn't everyone?) and dimensional reality is a term I coined that defines other realities including what is called supernatural realms via scientifically suggested extra dimensional universes. There is some but very very little evidence to suggest more than one universe exists.

*** First time use of psychotropic substances should not be attempted alone. Even experienced users can experience temporary or rarely permanent psychosis that mimics schizophrenia. In tribal use an group of experienced 'medicine men' or the equivalent of MDs mentor the novices journey into the psychedelic landscape. Again for legal reasons and to protect PF I do not advocate the use of illegal or dangerous substances. If I owned my own website my opinion would differ.


reva

 

They are not Christians by the law. However they are Christians that do not obey the teachings of Jesus. Unlike the rMuslims who can point to the Koran for religious justification their barbarity, or to Sharia law for gleefully beheading school girls Christians have no such justifications. Now its true that some ignorant people cherry pick the bible especially the old testament and attempt to apply what was christian law 3000 years ago and 'changed' by Jesus, to Christianity today. Of course if they had one brain cell it would be obvious that the only thing their cherry picking shows is the mentioned ignorance (of Christianity) and bigotry* of the hater.

* Bigotry because even when corrected the perps inevitably ignore the facts and unchanged resume to attacking something they usually have little knowledge of. There are a precious few haters that have after learning more about Christianity etc do change. For those people of normal intelligence and compassion, I thank you.

reva

 

I was an atheist for years remember? Back then there were many, many, oh so MANY times I did scour the bible looking for ammo to use against Christians. So I know what the thinking process of most activist atheists are. Its like they wake up hating the God they claim not to believe in, lol, well that may be a bit of a stretch. Anyway, even as a christian minister I realize there is a chance that its not what its represented to be. In any interpretations etc there are bound to be mistakes and maybe down right fraud. I have some questions of the cannon etc. But I have no doubt that the core message is not diluted and its been the same for over a thousand years. So with biblical claims etc being vindicated nearly every day by archeology and other sciences I see no reason to doubt or abandon it.

You may tell yourself that, but if you were really interested in truth you would take the time to research what the bible was really saying. Most activist atheists simply find something in I HATE THE BIBLE .COM copy and paste it. Or they cherry pick some passage that sounds awful, without researching the background information. Really most activists atheists are not qualified to make any claim about the bible and certainly not challenge some one with a formal education in theology etc. Yet I see it happen every day. Lastly and related to the ignorance of the bible, we Christians are not what you think we are supposed to be! Lol if I were, hell, we would be a all be Methuselahs, who was taken to heaven because he was so obedient to the law!

Read my reply, what happens in the old testament stays in the old testament. Show me all that evil in the new testament. You can't, and that irks atheists to all ends. The new testament is exactly what the title says it is. The old testament is exactly what it says it is. Remember God loves you and I am trying to~ but I am not a perfect christian, no one is, that is why Jesus came, so we could be forgiven for our screw-ups ie sins. Despite what some atheists seem to think everyone sins, even Christians, and a 'real' christian owns that.

reva

 

Show me a law that defines a Christian. Along with almost everything you write it is just your opinion. There is no Natural Law as you define it other than in your head.
This is why religion is so dangerous it try's to judge others by made up laws and morals often to attain wealth or influence.

 

]

You told us you were an atheist, but judging from what you have written I find that very hard to believe. You tell us you wanted to understand what made us Atheists, and not one atheist on this thread has said he woke up hating God. So you have completely ignored what has been told you and put your own opinion! No atheist I have ever met hates god, you cannot hate something that does not exist. If I hate anything it is the people who claim to to have a set of rules from an imaginary god for which there is no evidence. Its not the god we hate, it is the snake oil salesman.
Can you please provide evidence of one biblical claim that has been vindicated this year? You make some outlandish claims, how about some evidence?.

Why should an atheist hate the Bible, its a good book, again it is people who suggest the Bible is the word of a god that if anyone an atheist will hate. Particularly those who claim a special knowledge that's the ones who are dangerous, who will try to manipulate religion to their own ends. Everything written in the bible is written by a man a human being, no god involved. This is what you seem not to be able to comprehend, an atheist says "if there is no god, who wrote the bible and why?". Leave a belief in god out of the bible and it becomes all too clear that those who wrote it had the knowledge of 2000 ago and the moral understanding of those times. It is the same with all religious texts they are best judged by an open mind and an open mind at the very least is agnostic.

[/QUOTE]

Well there are an awful lot of Christians who do believe in the old testament, and we only have your word for it that you are right and they are wrong. Again try reading the NT from an atheist point of view and it looks like a book written about an enlightened guy for those times, with a few miracles thrown in to keep the reader interested.

 

""""""""""They are not Christians by the law"""""""""""""


???? What law makes people Christian?

 

Hi all.

I am a '6' on the Dawkins scale. This means although I am strictly speaking an agnostic because I do not know for certain that there is no god i ahve seen no proof of the xostence of god and until I do so then I shall continue NOT to beleive in God (or Gods)

I think you can easily define a Christian.

If you beleive
i) That jesus was the son of god ii) Born a man iii) was crucified iv) on behalf of man v) was resurected and vi) ascended into heaven
Then you are a christian. If not then you are something else. I only believe in ii) and iii) so I am something else.

 

With respect, I don't believe you were ever an atheist, if you 'wake up hating god'. I could no more have an emotion about a fictitious concept like god, than you could about the tooth fairy. THAT is an atheist. A god hater is a theist who has a bad relationship with their figurehead.

What miraculous (prosaic stuff is irrelevant - it's merely the setting for the story) biblical claims are vindicated by archaeology? And why doesn't the whole world know about them?

First of all I've never seen a bible hating websites. My guess is they're the preserve of cranky theists. Secondly, my interest in truth is what makes it impossible to believe anything in the bible is true (other than time and place the stories were written). I have read the thing entirely neutrally .. and came away amused and somewhat horrified. It seems to me that the only possible way of not seeing it this way is to go in with some sort of expectation or assumption that it's 'real', which is NOT neutral ... at all. And I'm sorry, but no amount of 'background information' can possibly cancel out genocide and baby slaughter. I'm not sure why you think it could.

Having a formal education in theology does not make the old myths any truer. We ARE talking about outlandish supernatural claims here, not algebra.

 

Agreed in the definition, but disagreed in the results. I've seen many self-labeled atheists who hate both God and Christians. Perhaps you are right that they are just f'd up theists with daddy issues, but I think that applies to any person who hates.

Again, the only logical position is to be agnostic (and not the ridiculous position of claiming to be both atheist and agnostic). To be atheist or theist is to be taking a position of faith since there is no science to back up either position.

 

Your last assertion is an argument from incredulity or a divine fallacy. Just because you can't understand how or why one is both an agnostic and an atheist and how the two are directly related doesn't make it false.

Not rejecting the idea that there is an invisible tea pot orbiting the sun because you can't prove there isn't-isn't logical at all. Logic dictates that if one cannot know then their claim that they do must be false.

Again, atheism is the rejection of a false claim.

 

You are free to go ahead and prove how someone can be two different things at the same time; to both disbelieve in divine entities yet also be a person who recognizes belief and disbelief in anything outside of the natural universe cannot be proven and it, therefore, not worth discussion.

 

You don't understand atheism. Even the most prominent atheists in the world have stated that there is no way to know if A god exists or even if there's an after life, on that they must remain an agnostic. What we are having a discussion about, what we are rejecting are the claims from the people who say they can know, that they do know and the reason we have this debate is because those claims have shaped much of human history and are still the most powerful force on the planet. To ignore it is the epitome of ignorance.

 

Maybe it's because most don't understand themselves.

 

Ah I see, so the millions of atheists out there don't know themselves but you know them all. Maybe the reason you don't get it is because you ignore almost everything they say?

 

No, but I can see why you want to believe so.

 

Care to back up that claim?...maybe with a FACT....

 

We're talking about beliefs. There are no facts. That's been my point all along about theists and atheists.

Instead of becoming upset, a smarter question would be "Do you consider theists having the same problem?". My answer would have been "Yes, the more pushy, the greater the problem".

 

So the difference between agnostics and atheists in your mind is that atheist don't think people should be able to claim to know what they cannot and agnostics think they should be able to?

And that's logical?

 

The difference is that atheists disbelieve in something without evidence, while agnostics admit there is nothing to prove or disprove any discussion on beliefs and simply walks away to more logical pursuits.

 

False, atheist disbelieve something because there is no evidence to support it.

Religion is the most important topic there is, nothing impacts humanity more. There is nothing logical about ignoring credulous claims propagated to billions as if they were the ultimate truth.

 

Notice that? First RevA denies that things like the Amalekite infanticide WAS "evil"....then he admits there IS "evil" done by God, but "That's in the OLD Testament....doesn't count. God's a nice guy by the time of the NEW Testament".


Odd? I thought God was "perfect, eternal, and unchanging"???

- - - Updated - - -

Curious....do you believe that Frodo Baggins was a real person?

 

As I see the issue, theists in order to defend their beliefs have been pretty much pushed back to the point that a god has one last refuge at the "beginning" of the universe. Here they make their last stand trying to convince the atheist that there could be something, and that something could be god. Of course the argument that since we have never found any evidence for any god, and certainly not for the god as described in any religious texts does not wash. They have found one last loophole and with the stubbornness of the believer shout "you have to prove there is no god". Put it like this, if it was in a court of law, then any neutral jury, given the evidence available, would conclude that a god does not exist, beyond any reasonable doubt.
Lack of evidence is in itself a logical reason to believe that something does not exist, indeed it is how humankind often makes a decision. People do not believe in leprechauns, yet no one can prove that they do not exist. We rely on a complete lack of evidence to conclude they do not exist.

I truly want to believe in the existence of the King Arthur myth, however the complete lack of evidence means that reluctantly I have to accept that King Arthur is not waiting to rescue England in her hour of need. Anything else would be deluding myself. It is sad that so many people cannot let god go, he is, just like a flat earth irrelevant to mankind's progress.

 

I was raised in an atheist home. A big city, where various religions are in evidence, same as various sports, clubs, political groups whatever..

None of it seems to have anything to do with me, no religion or club or ism ever appealed to me.

No religion seems real to me. I cant imagine choosing one, and then saying I identify with it and believe in it.