Why Vietnamese aren't entitled to Affirmative Action

I'm not going to dismiss the possibility that most people are idiots but I'm favouring the possibility that your assessment is wrong.

As for voting, I've no idea how all Vietnamese in the USA vote but I would suggest they are likely to have a better understanding of the risks of communism so, assuming you're correct on their voting patterns, maybe they're on to something?

 

Heh, I'm married to one so yeah!

 

How is it disingenuous to compare Vietnamese immigrants to Hispanics?

A group of people can and should be judged.

If Hispanics have had similar backgrounds as Vietnamese but have not thrived as well, they should be criticized for what they have done since coming here.

If Hispanic culture is to blame then Hispanics certainly deserve much blame for how they've performed in this country.

 

So you or your parents stepped off a slave ship in chains?

Good point. We can compare Japanese American achievement to Whites, Blacks and Hispanics.

 

Are you trying to show how bad the general level of American education is? This is fairly basic reading comprehension.

Again, I never said comparing any groups is wrong. I did say comparing them by only considering skin colour is wrong.

I also said that using any of this to put down any subset of American citizens is wrong (best cut out the big words).

Of course you can compare Vietnamese and Hispanic immigrants but you need to be open and honest about all the relevant factors, especially where you're comparing a specific group of Vietnamese refugees identified because of their success and the general public impression of Hispanic immigrants in the USA.

 

Vietnamese are an ethinic minority in the US but have not been recipients of systematic and instutionalized dicrimination as a ethnic group in the US.

There is no legal restriction on Vietnamese being considered for an Affirmative action.

 

So you are saying when Vietnamese came to this country they received NO]/b] Gov't assistance. We don't have to go to the 1600s, hell we can go back to the 60s, 70s and 80s. With that said please tell me when Vietnamese were subjected in this country to the same types of racism that black folks have been subjected to.

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No, we just dealt with the racism of Jim Crow.

So now you are jumping to Japanese Americans, btw didn't they receive reparations from Pres. Reagan around 1983.

 

Black people have received affirmative action since the days of LBJ's Great Society and been the recipients of massive spending for various social programs, welfare, etc. How many more years can individuals who fail continue to blame their failure on Jim Crow? How come educated Africans can come here and achieve more success than Black people born here. Hint - could it be education and work ethic? BTW, how is Jim Crow (with respect to housing) any different than the current Black fight against gentrification? First you complain about not being allowed to move into a white neighborhood and then later complain if a white person moves into your neighborhood.

 

Great. I'm glad we can compare Vietnamese war refugees to immigrants from Mexico, let's say.

I'll be here when you list the 'relevant factors' when having this open and honest discussion comparing the two groups.

 

Actually I thought Pres. Nixon and Ford initiated AA programs. As far as, welfare and other social programs go whites have benefitted more from them than black folks have.

Could it because Africans who come here have never been subjected to the racism that black folks who were born in this country have.

I don't know since I know plenty of black folks who are educated and have a strong work ethic, now what?

Hmmm, please show where I have comlained about anyone moving into my neighborhood. I will bet the farm that you will move if a black person moves into yours though.

 

Possibly? How much did they receive? It must be dwarfed by the unofficial reparations Blacks are getting.

Do you imagine Japanese only became successful after 1983?

As far as Vietnamese are concerned, they received less government assistance than Hispanics as Hispanics, not East Asians, are entitled to Affirmative Action.

Beyond that, there's no program that positively or negatively discriminates one group over the other.

 

Relevant factors obviously depend on exactly what comparisons you're making and frankly if you can't work out what they might be I'm not sure how meaningful a discussion you could have.

I'm personally not all that interested in playing one racial group off another anyway. In my experience, people are too individual for that kind of thing to be anything like as relevant as some would like it to be.

 

First of all you never bring anything to back up these outlandish claims you make.

Check the Civil Liberties Act of 1988.

Tell me what reparations black folks are receiving.

Wow you started with black folks and now you have jumped to Vietnamese, Japanese, Hispanics, East Asians. Hell why don't you just go Global.

 

If a successful middle class black family moved in next door to me that would be fine. On the other hand, a Section 8 house nearby with large numbers of black "youth" constantly milling around in the street playing basketball and younger kids entering my garage (from time to time) to look for stuff to "borrow" (such as my last hood) would result in a move. Does this make me a racist or a realist?

 

Please, the word is "Asian".

 

The only statement I made is something no one can dispute: Asians are not entitled to Affirmative Action.

Therefore, Vietnamese will receive less government handouts and benefits, assuming all other factors are equal.

And actually, since Vietnamese median income is higher than Hispanic median income, then they most definitely receive fewer benefits and breaks from the government.

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=341550

The reparations act of 1988 doesn't answer my question: How were Japanese doing before that legislation?

 

So do you have a problem with a white Section 8 family moving in next door to you, and yes there are whites on Section 8.

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Please post where it says Asians can't benefit from AA.

Prove it.

How were they doing from 1942-45 as compared to how black folks were doing in this country.

 

Do I need a link to show you the sky is blue, or are you incapable of knowing this yourself?

Do you need help clicking a link or did you just not bother?

I want to make sure I understand your rhetorical question: You're trying to compare an imprisoned Japanese population to the Black population at the time?

LoL. How about after, or before?

 

I just need a link showing where asians do not have access to AA.

I bothered, your link doesn't make sense.

Thats exactly what I am doing.

Take your pick, you tell me who had it worse.

 

No; do it yourself. You're far too special for me to waste time linking to easily accessible information.

I see. Reading is challenging for some. Here's a graphic instead:



Can you work the above out on your own, or will you need adult assistance?

You can read, right?

Great. You're comparing a population that was imprisoned to one that wasn't.

Japanese had it worse as they were imprisoned. Before and after their imprisonment, discrimination of Japanese was about the same as Blacks, and far worse than Whites.

How is it Japanese have done better than Whites, let alone far better than every other non-Asian minority group?

 

I did.

I can't find the part where it says Asians are excluded.

Help me out here, what is your point, that Asians are living better than most Americans.

Really, so I guess bringing someone over in the holes of ships in chains is not considered as being imprisoned.

Surely you jest.

Japanese-American Claims Act
McCarran-Walter Act

“1978, the Japanese American Citizens League officially asked Congress to investigate whether the imprisonment during World War II was unjustified and wrong. A bipartisan commission conducted extensive research and, in a report titled ‘Personal Justice Denied: Report of the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians,’ finally concluded that the imprisonment of Japanese Americans during World War II was a ‘grave injustice’ and resulted from ‘race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership.’”

The Civil Liberties Act of 1988

Financial Settlements
$20,000 per individual
the claimants were not awarded the full market value of their lost property
about 80,000 individual claims were paid, at a total cost of about $1.6 billion

Japanese-Americans were interned roughly 4 yrs and each individual was given 20K, what do you think the price would be for black folks for over 400yrs of slavery and Jim Crow segregation in this country?

 

Yes I do. Two full apartment complexes have turn section 8 three years ago. I lived in my house for ten and never had a problem with theft. In the last three years my truck has been broken into twice. My shed twice. Stolen my stuff off my back porch once. Even with cameras up. Neighbors have had the same affects form these section 8. Two kids were caught by my neighbors cameras and cops busted them from the apartments. One white 17 and a black 17. I'm sick of these crap.

 

I can't find where White males are excluded from Affirmative Action.

Ergo, White males must not be excluded.

Well, if you could have followed the line of conversation, you were asking for proof of Vietnamese median income being higher than Hispanic median income.

The data shows Vietnamese have higher median income than the US average.

Hispanics have lower median income than the US average.

If you're capable of simple logic, you can conclude Vietnamese have higher median income than Hispanics.

No; Blacks were not imprisoned as a community during the years 1942-45, which was what you asked.

But, apparently - and once again - the line of conversation escapes you.

No; not at all. I suppose you can prove otherwise?

So you're not capable of reading? Fair enough.

I'll repeat what I've asked before which you've avoided:

How were the Japanese, as a group, doing before receiving financial restitution?

What were their imprisonment, education, and income statistics through the 50s-80s compared to Whites, Blacks and Hispanics before a small fraction of the Japanese community received $20,000 from the government?

 

I don't recall making the claim that white males were, but you said Asians where but yet you can produce anything to prove they are.

I don't recall asking anything about Vietnamese income as compared to Hispanic income.

How many Vietnamese are there in America?

How many Hispanics are there in America?

What condition did Vietnamese come in this country under and what conditions do Hispanics enter this country under?

Probably because there are a helluva lot more illegal hispanics in this country than there are Vietnamese, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Actually in many parts of the country we were, for the simple fact there was only certain places you were allowed to go and only certain things you were allowed to do.

You must making an asinine statement like that.

Probably not too good.

Your arguement holds no water for the simple fact that you are trying to reduce the plight of black folks to 4yrs. Japanese-Americans have never suffered in this country what black folks were subjected to and in the end Japanese-Americans received reparations for being locked in Internment Camps for 4yrs what have black folks rec'd for the 400yrs of mistreatment in America?

 

You copy-pasted a paragraph that omitted to mention who is/is not entitled to Affirmative Action and came to the conclusion that Asians, therefore, are beneficiaries of the system.

I responded to your perverse logic by pointing out White males were also not mentioned in the paragraph, so therefore White males must also be beneficiaries of Affirmative Action.

In other words, I refuted your absurd logical fallacy.

And no, I'm not surprised you don't understand this.

No; you just asked me to prove a claim I made in a previous post:

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=345456&page=5&p=1063674415#post1063674415

Too bad you weren't clear as to which claim you wanted proving; especially since you ask above for me to prove my claim re: Asians and Affirmative Action.

No; you probably don't get this, either.

As long as there is a sizable number, the exact figure doesn't matter.

In fact, you can draw reliable conclusions from figures in the low hundreds; hence why polling questions can be accurate to plus/minus one or two percentage points from only polling a few hundred people.

No, you don't get this either, of course.

As for conditions of Vietnamese in this country, perhaps you could try reading the OP which explains the circumstances in which they arrived.

Did you bother to read the OP?

It doesn't take a rocket science to conclude Hispanic median income figures exclude unlawful immigrants as they have their own category.

I'm not surprised you once again need a simple explanation pointing out the qualitative differences between Japanese imprisonment for being Japanese - anywhere in this country - and specific situations of Black imprisonment to which you're referring.

Ok. Please show that up until 1988, Japanese-American socio-economic statistics were not 'too good' compared to White Americans.

Do you keep forgetting that I am comparing Japanese-American success in the US to three ethno-racial groups as opposed to just Blacks?