Yawn- Shroud of Turin Authentic, say the Italians

Yes, the folks who are famous for their firearms (never shot and dropped once) now declare the Shroud of Turin is the real thing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...l-cloth-authentic_n_1161363.html?ref=religion

 

That's a joke, right?

 

Granny says she knowed it's the real McCoy all along...

Shroud of Turin goes on display amid new research
Mar 30,`13 -- The Shroud of Turin went on display for a special TV appearance Saturday amid new research disputing claims it's a medieval fake and purporting to date the linen some say was Jesus' burial cloth to around the time of his death.

 

Whats new? The test they did on those pieces they had may not have even been from the real shroud.

http://shroud.com/latebrak.htm

Just more religious revisionist crap.

 

Granny knows its real `cause she seen a TV program `bout it once a few years back...

Turin Shroud shown live on Italy TV
30 March 2013 - The Turin Shroud - which is revered by many Christians as the burial cloth of Jesus Christ - has made its debut on modern media platforms.

See also:

Christ's Shroud Goes on Display in Turin
March 30, 2013 — The Shroud of Turin went on display for a special TV appearance Saturday amid new research disputing claims it's a medieval fake and purporting to date the linen some say was Jesus' burial cloth to around the time of his death.

 

Personally, the status of the shroud doesnt mean much to me, but if:

1) If authentic, then the secular scientists would have to admit they were wrong, which goes well beyond their confession of faithlessness

2) If non-authentic, then the religious scientists would have to discredit & devalue what some consider a 'Holy relic.'

BOTH sides have their reasons in this adventure 'with prejudice.'

The medieval/Crusader Christians were into holy relics, as I personally saw dead saint's bones in their burial garments viewed thru glass windowed 'resting places' in small town German churches as a youth.

Unfortunately, religious relics are esteemed to have a 'power' to them and can lead one to borderline idolatry. Why statues were 'verboten' in early churches, Jesus was removed from the crucifix following the Reformation, etc.

But if hard proof is provided for some to believe, than it doesnt become a matter of 'faith' anymore...As per the words of the resurrected Jesus to Thomas, "Blessed are those who do not see but believe."

Wishing those who seek the One who said, "I am the Resurrection."......a Happy Resurrection Day....

 

Science is a secular undertaking. The religious belief or otherwise of those who study using the scientific method is irrelevant. Carbon dating can be accurate to within a decade or so. No magic necessary.

 

Carbon dating is not being called into question here. What is in question is the material they supposedly tested to get their results. The above clearly calls into question the authenticity of the material they tested. I am sure they were not allowed to just walk in and start clipping from the thing. They never say where the said material came from or how they went about getting it. It's another shady magic trick by revisionist.

 

I agree that science in its 'purity' is (or shud be) conducted without prejudice.

But just as global warming, personal biases have come into the 'science of global warming' discussion (or lack of) and has muddled the bottom line of what is causing global warming as per individual percentages...what is the 'heavy hitter' of the cause?!

And also, 'surveys & polls' can be conducted to yield the desired results pending any bias in the questions (just as 'slanting' the testing methods/approach to validate a personal & often ego driven theory)....man can 'rarely' perform w/o some bias.

 

Authentically what? It really is a bit of cloth, even I can say that.

It could possibly have been a burial shroud from the 1st century. I doubt it, but if it is then it's hardly earth-shattering.

It may even have been the burial shroud of a fellow named Jesus who died on the cross. I doubt that even more but wouldn't entirely rule it out. I don't see how any scientific test could verify or disprove this though.

Did divine magic put Jesus' image onto the shroud as he died? I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever that THAT is authentic.

 

Just a passing question for the Prof:

How does someone like you ever 'whip up the faith' to cross a busy street?!

Or, confidently sit down in a strange chair 'believing' that it will hold & support you?

Sounds like.."blind faith' to me...sorry to have to break the bad news to you....


[Btw, as a 200 lb man, I have broken a couple of chairs in my life, as in 'mates' chairs that had only had 110 lb women and kids using them prior to me! Watch out for your blind faith!!]

 

Looking both ways has a very good track record, empirically speaking.

Agreed, chairs sometimes break. We all know that. We also know that it's pretty rare. When we sit, we are playing the odds, not exercising blind faith. Sometimes we lose and the chair breaks. That's how odds work.

I think you pretty much nailed the cloth issue when you pointed out that during the middle ages, relics were a big thing. There was a thriving market. Artisans able to produce plausible relics could expect good custom. Every little town had enough owners if little pieces of the original cross to construct several new ones. The Shroud of Turin appeared during the height of this craze.

What's puzzling to me is, they DID a carbon dating, and sure enough it produced an estimated date range where the initial "discovery" fell right in the middle of that range. NOW they are saying that the tested bit of cloth was not original, but woven in later to repair fire damage! If they knew that before, why did they pick such a piece? If they did NOT know that, suddenly "discovering" it after the fact is highly suspicious, to say the least.

 

OK, you prefer to call it 'gambling' in stead, with the odds on your side.

The smoke & fire damage makes sense as to invalidating the Carbon dating.

I saw a Doc on this a while back, and they mentioned some paint on the shroud--which could have been a "well-meaner" trying to restore the shroud back to its orig. look?

But also I thought that there had been some short-term empirical testing using ultraviolet light that produced a low-level similar image? A much longer exposure would have been reqd to approach the actual shroud image, tho..

Today, there are professional Jewish fakers modifying old relics found in the Holy land for profit (as high as 95% are fraudulent)---and do such as adding "James the Brother of Jesus," in Hebrew to the ossuaries (bone boxes), etc.....but, most likely the medieval types were priests et al who were trying to build the faith of the flock thru the use of Holy relics.

 

Yeah, flintc pretty much covered it. I don't play the lottery because I have this 'blind faith' that I wont win the £100mil jackpot. There are some chairs that I sit rather gingerly in. And when crossing the road, I don't do it blindfolded.

 

And so when you are out driving in heavy traffic, esp. in an unfamiliar area, then you must be 'hoping' that you dont get hit by another car? Right? Since you do not know all those around you who are driving---drunk drivers, crazy ppl, idiots, etc.

And since scripture says, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for," then you are operating in 'faith.' Faith in other drivers around you to be skillful & sober of mind & that they will not hit you & your car.

Face it, Prof, you're a 'faith person!' Again, sorry to give you that bad news....

 

I never said I wasn't. I would say, though, that having faith I won't die in a car crash tomorrow is just a tiny bit difference from having faith in something supernatural.

 

Did anybody actually read the articles and links associated with the story?

The "Italian scientists" concluded since the image on the fabric cannot be duplicated without 21st century technology, that is proof it had to come from the energy burst of a recently arisen god/Jesus Christ...


Jesus Christ...

 

Some ppl trust in fallible, mortal men; and then others trust in a historically worshiped, immortal God...but, it's OK, as your 'secreted faith' is safe with me..

 

I thought I had read the link, but I dont remember seeing anything about energy bursts, jesus rising, or even god. The link I read even ended with the question: "how did that body image appear on the shroud?"

Did I miss something?

- - - Updated - - -

Secret? I just posted it on a public forum, where I've posted it multiple times before. But keep telling yourself you're making some important point here if you like.

 

Well, it's 'news' to me...maybe you have 'discretely' posted it, and did not 'broadcast' it, as one who is openly unashamed?!

 

I didn't 'broadcast' it because it's such a trivial detail that it's not something I think anyone actually gives a crap about. Not because I was being 'discrete' [sic]. Do you need me to broadcast every aspect of my personal outlook on the world?

 

Obviously, by your reaction, I have hit a nerve and you are sensitive to the subject. And, so I'll just stay in background and 'keep an eye on' your postings for the future..now, relax...and go about your sarcasm, Professor.

 

Yeah, I am crying myself to sleep tonight. OBVIOUSLY.

 

'Indignant Defensive sarcasm," Ok got it....now sleep tight

 

Better than "full of crap". Nighty night to you too.