Your questions about Islam

What leaders have fallen?

The Libyans, Egyptians and Tunisians, Bahrainis NEVER advocated suicide bombings. Neither did Sabeel in Galillee.

The Saudis, Kuwaitis, Qataris NEVER advocated suicide bombings.

 

There's a verse of the Quran that forbids any form of killing yourself. Suicide bombers aren't going to any 72 virgins despite what they say. Just want to clear this up.

A Shahid (Arabic for martyr or witness) goes to Heaven if killed during Jihad. But there is no message encouraging us to get killed in the name of Allah SWT. A Shahid in the Quran would be a civilian not involved in the war. This is the view of some Muslims. Others think it's anybody who dies .

While those who fight during defensive Jihad and are killed get rewards for fighting for Allah SWT, but there is nothing wrong with those who don't. We aren't obligated to.

A war against non-Muslims isn't always Jihad too. A Jihad now, for example, would be a war over say al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. This has Holy meaning. But a war against lets say America (just as an example) would not be considered Jihad because there is nothing Holy about attacking America. It has no special place in Islam, unlike al-Quds (Jerusalem).

But if you ask many Muslims, especially in the Middle East, many are willing to die for Allah SWT.

And even their country. But I'm sure this is also common in America, Canada and other countries with patriotic citizens.

Did this answer your question? If you'd like I can pull up some Quran verses for you. Or try and explain it better.

Salam

 

how does the islamic calender coincide with the one used today?

for example

9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (See V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakâ], then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[1]


when it says 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months. does that mean Janurary, July, November, and December?

oh and are you shiite, Sunni???

 

What's with the peace on people's names? Is there a specific reason for saying it *every* time one mentions prophets? Who does it apply to? Does the Quran always do it?

The Allah SWT I assume only applies to Allah, but I assume for the same reason as PBUH?

 

But if you don't die in that manner you might not make it into heaven. Especially if you have given into temptation in the past and fear your will do so in the future.

Death during a war is then the only sure thing.

Yes. But things are rather different in Christianity in that dying in a war is, if anything, a less rightious way to die. Even if we were gunning people down to defend a church and the children inside, there is a feeling that what you are doing is very right in the eyes of man but perhaps not in the eyes of Christ who told his disciple to put away his sword instead of fighting those that had come to take him away to his torture and death.

I think most of us might still defend the church. But there is a feeling that you should absolutely do everything you can to avoid getting to that point.




I'm not sure how familiar you are with gang culture. However as you may know the murder rate in the United States is high despite the lower rate of many other crimes.

And the element driving that is gang culture. In that culture individuals are expected to display an attitude that they are not afraid to die and are not afraid of being arrested. Even if an individual is indeed afraid to die and does not want to go to jail, they would be reluctant to admit that in front of their friends.

As a result if there is a moment of disrespect or conflict between different gangs or even individuals it can escalate rapidly. Nobody on either side wants to lose face in front of their peers by exibiting a fear of getting arrested or being killed by backing down or offering other solutions to the problem, and thus the situation ends in blood.

So many situations that end in killings in urban America start with something as stupid as spilling someones drink at a bar or bumping into someone on the street.

I fear I'm getting the same feeling from those in middle eastern Islamic countries. That they feel if they exibit an unwillingness to gladly die in a war with America or Israel they will lose face with their countrymen, who also don't want to lose face by saying that they want their leaders to compromise, back down, or make concessions.

 

The Islamic calendar is based on the moon. So the months change every year (when looking at it through the normal calendar). This is why Ramadan and Eid are on different days each year.

Salam

 

lol I already answered it.

Salam

 

That's not quite true. A righteous person (no matter if they are Muslim, Christian, or Jew) will entire Paradise/Heaven if they do many good deeds. There is also peaceful ways for a Muslim to "cleanse" theirselves of sins. Making Hajj and Fasting during Ramadan. I'm not entirely sure if a terrible Muslim who does everything against Islam but happens to get killed in a Jihad will go to Heaven. But at the same time, Allah SWT (God) is Merciful and Forgiving... If you want I can look into it for you. It's a complicated subject I think.

When I said people are willing to die in their country I was talking about Americans and Canadians in general, not religiously.

I see what your saying. I think this is more of a personal then religious situation though. There's nothing in Islam to pressure us to die, however many Muslims have that attitude where they aren't afraid to die for their religion. Would I die for Lebanon? No. I'd fight for Lebanon, but I wouldn't want to purposely get killed. Would I die for Allah SWT? No. I'd fight for Allah SWT, but not trying to purposely get killed. Some answer no, some would answer yes.

Now that I think about it, purposely trying to die for Allah SWT would not make you a Shahid. I think it could be considered suicide. Because we believe Allah SWT knows everything, including our motives and true thoughts. And if you try and die on purpose to avoid sinning, well that in itself is sinning (suicide). I thought of this as I was typing, so it might seem out of place.

The Quran does not tell us to die for Allah SWT. It says if we die fighting for Allah SWT during Jihad, then we will get into Heaven. But it doesn't say if we fight, looking forward to die, that we will get into Heaven. And Allah SWT knows what we think.

Hope this answers your question.

Salam

 

Hmmm maybe sort of the first one about dying in war being the only safe way to heaven, or at least you've explained some of the controversy.


However when comparing to the gang mentality that causes so many murders here, it isn't required to have a desire to die or get arrested or anything. Obviously when the gangs fight both sides are trying to kill the other guys, and if the cops show up they try and avoid arrest.

Rather it's that they aren't willing to say they're afraid of dying or being arrested. That threatening them with either isn't going to deter their actions (at least if they're around their peers). As a result nobody backs down, and conflicts can quickly lead to violence.

Is that unwillingness to exibit fear of dying, or even fear of family dying, in a "defensive" war present in Islam?

 

Isn't it true that the majority of Muslims consider commiting suicide for any reason, even in the name of Allah, a grave sin? In fact, I beleive that suicide is recognized in the the Quran to be an unforgiveable sin, that can not be forgiven, no matter how good you were in life. And most sects of Islam actually condemn suicide bombings for this reason correct?

 

Ohhhh okay I see what your saying now. I thought you were talking about people wanting to die, not not being afraid to die.

It is present in Islam, kind of. What I mean is, a good Muslim (or Christian, or Jew) should not fear death because if one is truly good then they will get into Heaven. But a bad Muslim (or Christian, or Jew) most likely fears death because they know they will be going to Hell.

I still don't think this is quite what your talking about........

Not being afraid of death during Jihad war would be for the same reason. There is a difference between not being afraid of death, and wanting death. One can get you to Heaven, the other considered suicide which means Hell fire.

 

Yes, suicide is one of the worst sins a Muslim (or any human being in my opionion) could ever do (to themselves). Add to this that the target for suicide bombers is innocent civilians, there is NO WAY a suicide bomber will ever see Heaven.

Suicide of any kind is clearly stated in the Quran to be forbidden. So when people "blow themselves up in the name of Allah (SWT)" and you hear about these "Islamists" on the news, think about what you are hearing....

 

Sorry, missed that.

 

I don't think you were quite understanding the distinction that exists, and for a while I wasn't sure how to express it. But I've got an idea and I'm going to take another try.


For a Christian, dying in a war may be more like a Muslim dying in a fire in his bookstore as he tries to save the pornography.

Perhaps in the eyes of men there were good reasons for that, maybe his family was in dire need of money. Or perhaps the only reason he was selling pornography was to provide for desperately needed repairs at his Mosque.

Still, even if that were the case, as the Muslim struggles through the flames with an armful of DVDs full of hardcore sex, bondage, and lesbians, I think he might have serious concerns about how rightious this would be as a way to die. Even if they were going to give all the money to the Mosque which desperately needed it, are they really dying for Allah? Maybe they would get into heaven anyway thanks to Gods mercy. But still, it's a distastful situation and best avoided entirely.

I'm hoping this gives you the flavor of the difference.

What I'm concerned about is that that distaste of war doesn't seem to be present in Islam, particularily "defensive" war. Jihad is not like pornography to a Muslim, if I understand things correctly. If anything there seems to be an eagerness to provoke a war, even a losing one. But even if there isn't eagerness there certainly isn't concern or a feeling of distaste or sin associated with it.

I suppose it would be useful if there is some element in Sunni theology that paints even a defensive war in a sinful light. Or is there nothing? How about a defensive war that could have been avoided by other means? Does it matter if the war is because of land, or homes, or money as opposed to some sort of religious persecution?

 

Okay, first off sorry this question seems to give me some trouble. Not sure why, but i think I understand now (I hope...)...

Surah al-Baqarah might answer your question about your concerns: "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression."


Many if not all the verses in the Quran regarding war and Jihad are in the context of self-defence. Most people trying to paint an evil image of Islam would quote "and slay them wherever you catch them" purposely leaving out the entire verse. I see it sooo much.

We are allowed to lie - a sin in Islam - about our faith if it will save our lives. It's called Taqiyah. I think the practice of Taqiyah shows that Allah SWT does not expect us die for Islam in certain situations.

While Muslims might be more willing to die for the Mosque than Christians are for the Church, this is Jihad and not every war is a Jihad. The willingness to die for our faith is more of a lack of fear of death than Allah SWT commanding us to gives our lives up for Islam.

Please tell me this answered your question.

 

That's an interesting thought on Taqiyah. But lets set that aside for now.

The verse seems to be pretty horrifying on it's own.

That might explain why I've heard of some people trying to include Kosovo in the places where Muslims are "oppressed by occupying forces". I thought it quite odd, particularily given the situation in Kosovo.

But I imagine they're specifically trying to invoke that verse in order to justify slaughter.

And also demonstrates just how easy it is to pull "oppression" out whenever you want to kill somebody.

I think it did. Though I get some flavor from this part that you think a Christains relative unwillingness to risk their lives or the lives of their countrymen in war is due to a lack of faith rather than the fact that in Christianity slaughtering other people is distastful if not outright sinful. Even in the sort of situations a Muslim would consider to constitute "Jihad".

So I suppose the question that follows is how would one try to disuade Muslims from starting a war? Or perhaps more relevant to how things would tend to go down, to persuade them not to provoke one.

When they don't fear their deaths, or the deaths of their loved ones, and slaughter can be justified, how do you persuade someone not to if their peers are eager for war?

 

The Kosovo-Serb conflict has nothing to do with that verse, I can promise this.

I am glad I finally seemed to answer your question.

But how many Christians follow those rules about slaughtering people? You can't blame wars on religion anymore. Because if there was any religion in wars, there wouldn't be any - Christians aren't suppose to kill people at all, and Muslims aren't suppose to start wars only act in self-defence.

Your next question is more personal than Islamic. But I'll try to answer it.

I guess the best way to avoid war with Muslims would be to treat us as you'd want to be treated. And not attack us. Unfortunately that's the best I can come up, I guarantee the answer would be different depending who you ask.

Salam

 

God bless you my brother your brother from Algeria I liked the subject very
Only I want you to Emile offers me the information
،،،
Excuse my language in English is very weak hhhh

 

Well, I'd agree, except that I suspect some individuals are trying to make it, and other interactions with the west, about that verse.

Ditto with some of the stuff about "occupying" and "oppressing" Saudi Arabia when we were there. It seems a bit of a stretch to claim that a guest you invited onto your land is an oppressive occupying power.

But that seemed to have worked with a lot of people.

Well, I can't speak for Catholics. They've got their infallable popes. And if one of them said something like "God says go kill the Infidels in the Holy Land" than that's what they'd do.

Hurm... Actually, that might explain a few things in the past...

On that note how popish are Islamic leaders to your knowledge? I keep hearing about Muslim leaders issuing fatwas (I think that's what they're called) to kill specific individuals that ticked them off or to go after whole peoples or nationalities that got on their bad side.

Well, it's Islamic in the sense that I'm asking from a theological standpoint.

From a strategic angle one could attempt to threaten or bribe the leadership, launch a pre-emptive strike, stage a coup, work with a group they're oppressing to give them bigger problems, and all sorts of other things.

But if one wanted to appeal to the individuals of a nation from an Islamic argument when they're itching to provoke or start a war, how would one go about it? Is this the sort of thing that needs specific examples because there aren't other generic verses?

On a total side note I saw Disney's "Aladdin" with my young daughter yesterday. It was interesting noting people saying Salaam and Allah all the time in that movie, as it was set in Arabia.

I rather miss the time when that movie came out when Islam was just thought of as another beautiful part of the American tapestry and we were all so blissfully unaware of the hate of an entire region.

Welcome!

Hope you're safe from the flooding.

 

The verse is specific for self-defence and it still doesn't promote mass-slaughter. We are to fight those who fight us, until they stop. In Mohammed's time this verse would be more important than now.

I don't understand what your saying about Saudi Arabia??

Fatwas are part of Sharia and simply means opinions. People try claiming they mean calls for war and death, but they are opinions by scholars. Some listen, others don't.

I don't think a Muslim leader would go that far to start a war, but I'd appreciate an example of what your saying since I don't quite understand.

I sure hope you don't think the anti-American feeling of the Middle East aren't somewhat justified......

 

Looking through my post after writing it, I wanted to point out that I think it might just be the two of us subscribed to this thread at this point. I'm not trying to troll against Islam.

Rather I am presenting things as I understand them, and hope that you can offer some theological leverage against a Muslim tryign to argue for violence or at least explination or context for myself.

Surely you can see how it could be used that way. Especially since "until they stop" could well be equivalent to "until they accept unconditional surrender" which would entail huge amounts of bloodshed.

One of the things Osama railed against was non-Muslims setting up bases in Saudi arabia, despite the House of Saud inviting them.

Well. I suppose you could say the same thing about what a Pope says. However there are certainly a bunch of Catholics that listen (or who would go out to war historically). Is that how it is with Fatwas?

Or is it more like an article in a newspaper, where somebody might agree with it and act, but nobody feels they are required to obey.

Well, to keep the theology theme lets start with Mohammad. That also might be important, because while someone could say that any specific Muslim leader wasn't acting properly when they did something, I'm given to understand Muslims are simply not allowed to criticize Mohammad.

Hmmm. Actually, is that true? You say Mohammad was a prophet, and that Angels spoke to him, but Muslims still consider him a man right? So you might not be able to disagree with something the Angel said, but can a Muslim say things like "I think Mohammad made a big mistake" or "I think what he did wasn't right" in regard to specific actions he took.

Anyway my understanding is that Mohammad launched quite a few non-defensive wars.

First he had a period of time when he was a raider for booty.

Then he had a time of launching expiditions and attacks to prevent others from working together.

He also launched a war because an emmissary he had sent out had been killed by the rule they went to (which is an international incident, but you couldn't say it was "defensive").

This eventually culminated in an outright assault on Mecca because of who they were selling weapons to, and despite them wanting to negotiate once Mohammad was on the way!

And once he had controll of Mecca and a strong force he went out on the outright offensive against groups that had ticked him off in the past.

It is true that during the cold war the first and second world countries used the third world nations as pawns to be moved, traded, and sacrificed. Alliances were made, governments were toppled, and despots were supported etc etc.

However the cold war, at least the one against the USSR, is over. I think many conflicts the US has with the middle east are vestiges of that time. A cycle of conflict and violence that we would like to end, but that requires the middle eastern countries to also want to cease the conflict.

 

Yeah, it's pretty much just you an me... I was hoping more people would be interested, but I'm glad atleast somebody is.

The verse is quite clear on that I think. Fight them until they stop oppressing or fighting you. But like all verses of all religions, people with different views and goals will twist things to "justify" their thoughts and actions.

But what make Osama bin Laden so important? He's called for Jihad how many times, and only his friends listen to him. He's igsinifacnt in Islam IMO and most Muslims around the worlds too.

Yeah. Most Fatwas calling for killings are usually ignored by the majority and there are a few who want to do it, and then follow through with it. But we aren't obligated to follow any Fatwa. So in a way, it's a bit of both. Usually a religious figure issues Fatwas, but we aren't obligated to follow.

It is not only with Mohammed PBUH. A Muslims can't really crisize any prophet. This also includes Moses and Jesus (PBUT), as well as many others. We can question thier actions, but not their words. And is there really any reason to question their actions anyway? What is there to get out it?

I'll go into detail on those events in another posts.

Thing with the continued hatred is it hasn't stopped. Taliban and al-Qaida who were created by the US to fight USSR are still around. And still a problem. There is still American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. America still unconditionally supports all of "Israels" actions. America supported Mubarak for how many decades? America continues to get involved in the Middle East when nobody wants them there. I know, NATO is in Afghanistan but when you think of NATO which country pops into your head?

 

Okay, now for the events you mentioned.

The caravan's which were raided were that of the Quraysh. The Quraysh were actively persecuting Mohammed and the Mulsims of Mecca at this time. It's not like one day he said, I want to start attacking caravans.

The reason the Muslims fought so many tribes was because many were allied to the Quraysh.

??? Mohammed and the Quraysh had a 10-year trucee which was broken when a tribe allied to the Quraysh attacked an ally of the Muslims. Mohammed wouldn't negotiate after that. Once the Muslims got Mecca, the only thing he did was remove the Pagan symbols from the Ka'aba.

Mohammed also fought against the Romans and Byzantine Empires.

If you want list some specific battles.

 

Alright, how about the Battle of Mu'tah.

Now, secular sources feel that Mohammad was just out grabbing more land and tribes.

But my understanding is that Muslims believe the reason to be that an emissary was sent, but they were killed. And in order to avenge the murder of his missionary, Mohammad went to war.

Is that a correct understanding? I.e. that it was for vengence and not in any way defensive, because Mohammad was going after a nation that wasn't attacking him.

Is it any different now, or would a similar occurance today be seen among Muslims as a valid.

In general do causes Muslims feel are valid reasons for Muslims to go to war also felt to be valid reasons for Non-Muslims to go to war. I.e. if some Islamic nation whacked a missionary or diplomat, would Muslims feel that it is acceptable for the missionary/diplomats nation to launch a war in response?

 

Is it true muhammad the prophet married Ayesha at 6 years old, and consummated the marriage at 9 years old?