Your Vision of Human Nature

If he didn't say it, he certainly implied it. ​

I don't ever think I thought, I would have to be lucky to succeed.

Other people have been more successful than me and I envy them. However, I do not blame it on luck. I simply did not work hard enough or smart enough

 

I doubt that you are interested in reading all the peer-reviewed research (which I have..as I studied Psychology for 6 years) so I'd suggest a popular book by Steven Pinker called 'The Blank Slate'.

 

Yep, you look at American social immobility and blame people for not succeeding. That's a shame as you're ultimately belittling people's endeavour.

 

When someone fails because they do not try hard enough, I blame them for their failure just like I blame myself when I do not succeed because I did not try hard enough. If they try and fail, that is a different matter. I congratulate them for trying. However, if they give up, that is their fault. What it ultimately comes down to is whether they are satisfied with themselves, not what I think or anyone else thinks.

I will never apologize for believing that people are largely responsible for their own fate. They might not do as well as the wanted, but that is the way of the world. At some point, we all fall short of our own expectations.

 

Heh..well you keep believing that. Fact is, some people are never gonna make it, and others just get handed everything. Work has little to do with it. In both instances its assumed both individuals worked as hard as possible though, unless you are citing specific instances.

 

Human nature is what the chemical balances in your body tell yous to be...Influence by parents peers and friends along with family allow you to develop with their influence.

 

For myself I gave up mass consumerism and mass consumption and valued living more than working and buying stuff...

 

"A man's reach should always exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?" Robert Browning

 

Thats what we call anecdotal evidence. Im sure you put 1000 people in a room and you will have 1000 different contradicting scenarios just like yours explaining how X made it, or why Y person failed despite their best efforts.

 

There is social mobility if you have the right connections..

 

That's social capital (using the Chicago Economic School to keep the right wingers happy), which tends to reduce social mobility. Its celebration of class after all.

 

I am sure that current barrons of Facebook and Amazon started broke.

 

I don't think they are inferior. They choose not to work as hard as I did and they don't end up as well. That is the way it should be. If they are satisfied, that is fine. If not, don't blame it on luck or on someone else.

Absolutely. However, their degree of success or failure will largely depend on how hard they try. You are almost sure to fail, if you do not try.

That may be true, but that should never be an excuse for not trying.

I completely disagree that work has little to do with it. Some of the hardest working people I know were handed much of their fortune on a silver platter. However, they also inherited a good work ethic and worked hard to hang onto what was given them.

 

Im pretty sure you disagree. But do you commonly listen to sob stories of people who put in zero effort? Or do you not give them the time of day unless you want to site them to represent the opposition? As if they only exist to demonstrate an example of not living up to your standards. I mean thats pretty comical if you ask me.

 

It is not important whether they live up to my standards. What is important is whether achieve what they want in life. If they do not try, don't blame anyone but themselves. What I keep hearing is that is impossible to improve your place in life. That is really depressing.

 

It can be for some. If you are listening are you helping? Or you just standing over, assuming, wasting everyone's time including yours.

 

In general, there is not much I can do about everyone else's fate. I can only recommend that they try. To think it is impossible or that it depends on luck will result in failure.

 

I would say it seems like that is what you are doing when you assume people fail due to lack of work ethic.
What if their like of work is say forced prostitution, forced programing, forced anything..would better work ethic get them out of that situation? Those are the sort of sob stories that I think of when you callously dismiss plight.

 

Is this something then?

The Unsustainable Nature of Crunch Culture
You’ve forgotten what your family looks like. It’s been months of overtime. Leaving the house before they’ve woken up, coming home after they’ve gone to bed. You tell them that ‘it’s expected, and everyone else is doing it’, well aware that’s the same excuse others are giving their loved ones. And you don’t complain, because you love what you do, and there’s a queue of people ready to take your seat if you do.
Crunch breeds martyr syndrome, the notion that if you don’t suffer for your project, you are not truly invested in it – a damaging idea in any industry – and in the creative industries it has fostered an untenable relationship between passion and burnout, with crunch time stories turning into bragging matches about who worked more hours and suffered more. Crunch is both seductive and destructive, and that’s why it’s still prevalent and even glorified in many industries, particularly the games industry.

https://rewind.co/news/unsustainable-nature-crunch-culture/

Uh-huh..lack of work ethic is why they cant get ahead huh?

 

The US has low social mobility. How many of them, given that reality, do not try and are doomed to fail? You're going to need a high figure to explain US immobility compared to other countries.

 

social immobility? Wrong. People constantly move from one quintile to the other though the quintiles stay roughly the same size.

 

No it is not.

 

We don't live in other countries. Not trying will surely doom you to failure.

Just a side note, I have been in around thirty countries and five continents and worked with a number of foreign nationals in the US. I have not seen this great disparity you are referring to.

 

Dunno what to tell you..Not everyone can be a winner. For some..it truly is gonna take a miracle, or luck along with their best efforts.
Edit: Iv even met some where their best efforts have done nothing but put them further behind. Lack of work ethic, and good looks actually brought about their success.

 

It is not a matter of being a failure. I am satisfied with where I am in life. Most people around me are also satisfied. But we hear people complaining about how much better someone else has it. In many cases, if not most, they did not try very hard.

But let me put my own life in perspective. I pretty much started out with nothing. My father died before I was born and my mother worked at numerous jobs keep all five of us alive. I worked hard for where I am and I am proud of it. That does not mean I hate or sneer at someone else for not being as successful. If they are satisfied that is fine. If they are not satisfied, then maybe they should try a little harder.