Z Never Had A Broken Nose

so now you take that as fact correct? since he leans more towards your opinion he is telling the truth now right?

 

do you really need to me to point out how many times Z supporters claimed Z's nose was broken as fact before the medical reports were released? Seriously? I told several people it was dumb to claim it is a fact his nose was broken but they didn't care. There is no proof it was broken and that is how i can say it was never broken. If you have objective evidence it was broken then post it.

If the best you can do is Z's doctor's speculation then I can point to the EMS report and pics of Z that do not support the claim it was broken.

 

You are missing my point. That witness gave two different versions of what he saw. His 911 call has him saying something very different than what he claimed to have seen AFTER talking to both Z and the police. I did not doubt him based solely on the content of his claims, but only on the fact his claims were inconsistent. His latest version matches much more closely with his 911 call. Do you honestly think the prosecution would not ask him to explain the different versions?

There are people claiming the phone witness is lying about what she heard based on nothing more than not liking her testimony. They can say "she didn't say it" in her first testimony but they don't have the recording or transcript of that testimony so they have no idea what she did or didn't say.

 

show the EMS report stating nose was definitely not broken. Z's doc said its likely to be broken, and considering Z had 2 black eyes either SPECULATES Z's nose was either broken or he was punched repeatedly.

you cant have it both ways my man, choose one and say its your opinion, quit trying to say what you dont really know as fact.

as far as the nose there is nothing but speculation from Z's doc and what you say the EMS report says, so once again its speculation either way and nothing will be revealed till the trial.

see if you said "I dont think Zs nose was broken" i wouldnt be totally annoyed with you since you arent pretending to know the facts, but only discussing your opinion and not being a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)bag trying to tell everyone whats true and not.

 

Who said Mexicans are mutts? Or is that just another false claim on your part? Have you figured out yet Hispanic is NOT a race?????

 

aha now we are getting somewhere, i got you i got you. now we can have a true discussion on these matters. now what makes me mad about these witnesses is how they are changing their stories from then and now. the way its going if witnesses keep changing their minds and cant get their (*)(*)(*)(*) straight one of 2 things are gonna happen....

1.a teen who was truly innocent in the matter wont get the justice he deserves

2.a man who rightfully defended himself will be sent to prison for following the law

i sure hope these witnesses get their facts straight come trial, because all i want to see honestly is a fair trial and justice to be served to whom it is deserved. (*)(*)(*)(*) (*)(*)(*)(*)ed up with Casey Anthony, that (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) should be in jail.

 

Straw man: I never said the EMS report says his nose is not broken. I did say the ems report does not support the claim his nose was broken and that is a fact. Have you seen the ems report yet???? Between that and the pics of Z at the police station, there is evidence his nose was not broken.

The ironic part? Z's doc only looked at his nose but if other doctors look at his nose and say it doesn't look broken that doesn't count. (no. I am not saying I'm a doctor. I'm only referencing the fact doctors have looked at video and pics of Z at the police station and said it does not look like his nose was broken)

Z was obviously not hurt in any serious way. That is why the autopsy was done on T before Z even went to his doctor.

 

correct term is hispanic decent,i will stand corrected. but once again please tel me what race us brown skinned people are, you can just categorize us as white since we simply are not.

 

I hate the witnesses changing their stories as much as anyone else because you are absolutely correct that it gets in the way of justice. I listened to the 911 tapes when they were first released and I recognized "John's" voice from the interview he gave after talking to both Z and the police. What I found most striking on his 911 call is he was the closest resident to the shooting but he was the last person to call 911 and it was so dark outside he couldn't recognize uniform cops on the scene. If it was too dark to recognize the cops how could it have possibly been bright enough for him to see any details of what happened?

 

Hispanics are different races. In the 2000 Census 53% Hispanics identified their race as White. Ethnicities, Nationalities, and Races are not interchangeable. Sometimes they can overlap but they cannot replace each other. Kudos to you for not pretending Hispanic is a race. If I ever figure out how to give people Rep on this new system I will give it to you. I don't know what race you are.

 

no straw man, just getting to the facts. just pointing out your hypocrisy as you will accept what the EMS report states, but you wont accept the report Z's doctor made out. and again you will take the account of doctors who saw his picture, but never looked at him in person. hypocrisy,plain and simple. and how would you know other docs who looked at his nose would say about it? you can read everyone elses mind as well?

and um id say atleast 2 black eyes and multiple cuts to the back of his head are a result of a serious beatdown. had Z not shot him it could have been worse,im surprised he didnt have multiple concussions. but thats what the trial coming up is for, to end the speculation and stop with the opinions being pushed as fact like you are trying to do.

i SUSPECT its a good possibility his nose was broken considering 2 black eyes as i dont think Martin punched him in both eyes. and im suspecting that Martin got on top and shoved his head into a hard surface atleast 2 times to make those cuts to the back of Z's head. then Z pulled his gun,Martin tried to back off but before he could Z shot him while Treyvon was trying to get up.

the one thing i care about in this whole case is, who threw the first punch or actually who put their hands on who first. that alone is the key to the whole case and determines Z's guilt or innocence.

 

ill go with brown, im sure as hell not white lol.

 

speculation being pushed as fact before trying to figure out what they saw. people, especially witnesses need to be much more clear when they see things like this go down. now being a witness to a crime before i do admit it seems things move so fast while its happening it takes time to comprehend what the hell just happen, its like your brain for some reason quits taking in info, but i blame that on an adrenaline rush of being both excited and even scared. at first i gave my testimony on what i could honestly remember, then a few days later its like my mind woke up and i remembered everything about the event. i didnt change stories, i just filled in the gaps of the account i gave. it took like 3 days and the whole event played out in my head.

 

I don't ignore Z's doctor's speculation. Iam highlighting that it is speculation and that it is speculation not supported by any other evidence. I have read different articles with doctors giving their opinion that based on what they saw it did not look like Z's nose was broken.

The case is not centered around who touched who first, although evidence suggests it was Z who grabbed T. There is no evidence at all from the autopsy report that T was putting a "beat down" on Z in anyway. Have you considered the possibility they didn't punch each other at all? It was raining so the grass was slippery and from the pictures, not exactly flat. I think what happened is Z tried to grab T and hold him for the cops. They struggled and fell down with Z on the bottom. This would explain Z's minor injuries, the lack of evidence T was actually punching Z, the empty 7/11 bag, and the 40 seconds of struggling with no further injuries.

 

well ok, but ima dispute that by saying you dont get cuts to the back of your head and 2 black eyes from falling in the grass. i been into a many scuffles in my life thus far, bout to quit my second job as a bouncer because its really starting to take it toll now lol. but ive fallen hard head first before on the grass on a few occassions, i never got anything worse than a headache. i have punched people in the back of the head before, do you know how hard it is to break open someones head with a fist,much less grass?

point being is they fought man, they had to have. knuckles dont have to be cut open and pouring blood to know someone got punched, you aint gonna bust knuckles unless you hit around the mouth,side of the head or back of the head.

too much evidence shows there was a fight involving fists and that it was a very one sided affair. seriously man, you dont get those kinds of injuries by taking a tumble in the weeds.

 

That is what my beef is with Z's nose. It was claimed as a fact it was broken when all we have is speculation from Z himself and his doctor. Myself and others pointed out a while ago the EMS report would be crucial because they were the first medical personnel to see Z and their report doesn't even suggest it was possibility Z had a broken nose. They reported there was absolutely no hemorrhaging and that is crucial because the head bleeds very easily and Z was on medication that makes bleeding worse.

The prosecution can prove the mindset of both Z and T in the moments prior to the shooting. If we are basing anything on what is "likely" then it is likely Z made the fist move based on his recorded words, history of violence, neighbors saying he was confrontational, former coworkers saying the same thing, and the fact T tried to avoid any confrontation by running away from Z.

 

I should have been more clear. If Z grabbed him and they were struggling then T was on top of Z when they fell down. If there was a sidewalk under Z's head it would make perfect sense he had two cuts on the back of his head and a tender nose.

What I have not seen is evidence anyone was punching anyone for any period of time. If you've been in street fights you know it only takes ten seconds or less to seriously eff up someone else. These two struggled for almost a full minute and there were no marks on Z's hands and T only had a small abrasion on his left ring finger below the knuckle. There was also none of Z's DNA under T's fingernails and the gun only had Z's prints so T never touched it.

Based on all of the evidence I can confidently say what happened is Z gabbed him, they fell down with Z getting the worst of it by T being on top, they wrestled each other, and when T was getting away Z pulled out his gun and shot him. Keep in mind the last witness to see anything before the gun was fired saw only one person on the ground. It doesn't matter who it was. If there was only one person on the ground in the seconds before the gunshot, the gun was not fired during an intimate struggle.

 

yeah but the thing is they dont say its not broken either. if you could please show me the EMS report as i have not read it yet. also yes the EMS report is important, all the reports are. one though, how long did it take for the EMS arrive on the scene and look at Z?

 

i could see hat happening as far as Z falling back and his head hit the pavement, i could see where he got the cuts on the back of the head from. but um that doesnt explain 2 black eyes and a tender nose, he either landed on his face which is not possible because he would have been all cut up from smacking concrete, OOORRRR which sounds about right he landed on the back of his head.

you cant have both from the same initial hit. another thing is its obvious then by your account that Z was on his back with T on top. it could be said that the tender nose and 2 black eyes could have came from a accidental head butt on the way down, but that cant be said because T would have wounds on his face as well from that kind of contact.

so far im trying to see things your way but it doesnt add up. ill give you the cuts on the back of his head due to a struggle and fall as obviously they laded with Z on his back, but that still dont explain the 2 black eyes and tender nose.

hurt nose and 2 black eyes are definite signs of being hit in the face, it sure as hell wasnt the concrete because as i stated before you cant hit both sides of your head at the same time and concrete would have done much more damage than a fist.and yeah ive been in multiple fights, and fights can end in a matter of a few seconds and they can go on for minutes,doesnt mean anything on how long the fight lasted. and once again you dont have to have marks on your hand to prove you kicked someones ass,i been in fights where i hit someone multiple times n the face and my fists showed zero marks or swelling lol. and a shot to the nose is hardly even gonna hurt your fist and lastly T didnt scratch Z, so he most likely wont have Z's DNA in his fingernails as when you have your hand in a fist your nails are covered up inside your hand, so that means nothing.

and T not touching the gun means nothing really.

your story doesnt make sense really. like i said its possible Zimmerman got the cuts to the back of the head if they fell and T was on top, but 2 black eyes and a tender nose dont come from a few rolls in the grass. and another thing, if T was running away he would have been shot in the back, what was he back pedaling real fast or something?

im gonna use your speculation and draw up a better possibility.

-struggle commenced while both men were standing
-they fell on the slippery grass resulting with T being on top and Z hitting the back of his head on the sidewalk
-T took the opportunity to get a shot in and punched Z one time in the nose
-stuggle went on further with the men grappling eachother
-Z pulled his gun
-T tried to get off and stood up
-Z fired a shot into T

end game


im taking yours and my opinions and this is what it looks like, and much more plausible or it could be the way your trying to explain it but you ball too many things together to try and simplify it.

you arent taking reality into account. some things you say can be very much true, while the others just dont add up.

 

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/17/new-documents-shed-light-on-trayvon-martin-killing/

Scroll down to where the article says "EMS Report" and download the small PDF file. The report does not need to say it isn't broken. The report lists his injuries and all it says is his nose is "tender" and it doesn't even suggest the possibility it is broken. They looked at Z about ten minutes after the shooting. His bleeding was so minor the cop handcuffed Z and put him in the back of his cruiser and that is where the ems treated him.

With Z's injuries, I'm saying if T fell on top of him at the same time Z fell down then Z's nose and back of his head injuries happened at the same time. Look at the two lacerations on his head. One of them is perfectly in a straight line with the injury on his nose. It looks like T fell on top of him and that is how his head and nose injury happened at the same time.

 

It makes sense to me. Did you not even read my post. If his nose was broken, but there was no deviated septum there is no way that the EMT's would know because the swelling and black eyes take a while to show. There could be blood, but your nose can bleed without it being broken. A doctor would be able to tell better a few days later when the swelling and black eyes are more apparent. There is no point having an x-ray done at that point because nothing can be done anyway... just ice it and wait for it to heal.

That's all fine and dandy, I get that they said they don't think it is Z, but that doesn't mean if they used Trayvon's voice they would get a definitive answer either. Maybe the audio is simply just unclear.

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Obama is half white, have you ever, ever seen him called white?

 

When T fell on top of Z where would his arms have been? When you fall straight forward it's natural to use one or both arms to buffer the fall. If T fell on Z and used one of his arms as a cushion, that forearm across Z's face would account for the tender nose, black eyes and cuts on the back of his head.

I also agree it is possible T punched Z but it doesn't make sense because T was right handed and there wasn't a single mark on his right hand. The abrasion on his left ring finger below the knuckle definitley fits into the falling down scenario.

From the evidence, I just don't see anything T did to earn the death penalty. T did run away and from what we know he was trying to hide from Z versus leading Z to where he was staying. People often forget from T's perspective, there was just some weird dude following him and it looks like Z started following him before T even entered Twin Lakes.

 

They do not say definitely and if they did that alone disqualifies their statements. All they can say is likely and since likely doesn't prove it to you as far as the broken nose then this should not either. That being said their conclusions have had serious doubt cast on them.

"Dr. James Wayman, a San Jose State University expert in the field of speech science, told The Daily Caller that he questions the grounds on which Owen based his analysis.

Wayman also said he would be willing to testify against the admissibility of Owen’s findings on the grounds that they don’t meet the criteria required for evidence in federal courts.

“There is no history of, or data on, the comparison of a questioned scream to a known speech sample,” Wayman said.

The problem, he said, is that the two voice samples were recorded in difficult acoustic conditions over different cell phones.

“Even if we were to have Mr. Zimmerman recreate the scream under identical conditions with the same cell phone,” Wayman explained, “it would be difficult to attribute the scream to him without a sample of a similar scream from Mr. Martin under the same conditions. This is clearly not possible.”

"Dr. Philip Rose of the Australian National University told TheDC that scientific experts refer to Primeau’s method as “naïve voice recognition.” His influential 2002 book Forensic Speaker Identification draws a major distinction between naïve and “technical forensics” voice recognition.

“Naïve voice recognition is so prone to error that it is acknowledged that it is worthless as evidence,” Rose said via email.

A forensic expert’s job, he said, is to assess the strength of evidence, not to estimate the probability of a hypothesis. And “the value of the evidence depends … on the similarity of the samples.”

In a properly conducted analysis, he told TheDC, “you would still have to do the comparison using screamed and phone samples, with many speakers.”

One voice authentication expert whose work is commercial in nature told TheDC that screaming, stress, and a recording’s audio quality can “wreak havoc” on voice biometric software and its ability to interpret data.

And speaking of Owen’s findings, another industry insider said that “a legitimate biometrics expert would likely refute the contentions” and suggests that these were “incendiary publicity plays.”"
http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/v...ntinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/2/

And of course we now know the FBI did it's own analysis and said they could not determine whose voice it was.

"ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - An FBI expert found crucial evidence in the Trayvon Martin case was inconclusive, saying it was impossible to tell if the voice screaming for help belonged to the black Florida teenager or his shooter George Zimmerman just before the neighborhood watch captain pulled the trigger.
"Critical listening and digital signal analysis further revealed that the screaming voice of the 911 call is of insufficient voice quality and duration to conduct a meaningful voice comparison with any other voice samples," concluded Kenneth Marr, a specialist with the FBI's digital evidence laboratory in Quantico, Virginia.

Of 18.82 seconds of screaming in the distance, only 2.53 seconds went uninterrupted by the conversation between the woman who called 911 and the dispatcher, Marr said in his report.

Moreover, the audio sample was "produced under an extreme emotional state," the report said, making it difficult to analyze."
http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-marti...-002214340.html;_ylt=A2KLOzF7Zr5P.ioAGpjQtDMD

Still waiting for you to quote the evidence from the EMT stating Zimmerman did not have a broken nose and yes there is plenty of contradictory evidence as far as the voice analysis.

 

The fact remains the EMS report does not show any serious injuries to Z at all.

Obushama cannot be compared with Z because Z is simply a white male, like the police and his doctor report states.

 

Bluesguy, haven't you figured out I give your posts no attention anymore? Your posts will continue to be a joke until you can be honest about your own claims on this issue.