The "Frog Boiling" Strategy of the "pro-life" movement...

Would it be wrong for the law to require people to donate an organ to sustain someone's life? Why?

Why do you think you have any right to force a woman to remain pregnant?

 

Delivering a baby does not generally lead to a permanent loss of any body part. I only see an analogy here if a C-section is required (which most of the time it is not).

Because it's natural. Because there is a 99% chance the woman could have avoided it if she had made different decisions. Because to do otherwise means killing a developing human being.

 

A woman donates her entire body to pregnancy.

It may be natural to get a disease but you think nothing should be done about it.....weird.

Whether a woman could've avoided it or not doesn't take away her right to her own body.

If you were in an accident you could've avoided does that mean you'd refuse treatment for any injuries....injuries that naturally happen to a human body in an accident.

 

It involves extensive damage to a woman's body, so there's your analogy, and you can answer the question now.

So is abortion.

And you think you have a right to punish her for deciding to have sex?

That's nothing more than your opinion.

 

I don't want to be insulting, or dismissive of what the what a woman bears during pregnancy... but... are you really serious??

"extensive damage" ?

 

PROVE there is none.

I know you can't because you never have presented any proof and can't because there is none....but, of course , you can't admit to facts.

Prove none of this happens:


Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:
•exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
•altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
•nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
•heartburn and indigestion
•constipation
•weight gain
•dizziness and light-headedness
•bloating, swelling, fluid retention
•hemmorhoids
•abdominal cramps
•yeast infections
•congested, bloody nose
•acne and mild skin disorders
•skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
•mild to severe backache and strain
•increased headaches
•difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
•increased urination and incontinence
•bleeding gums
•pica
•breast pain and discharge
•swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
•difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
•inability to take regular medications
•shortness of breath
•higher blood pressure
•hair loss or increased facial/body hair
•tendency to anemia
•curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
•infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
•extreme pain on delivery
•hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
•continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
•stretch marks (worse in younger women)
•loose skin
•permanent weight gain or redistribution
•abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
•pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
•changes to breasts
•increased foot size
•varicose veins
•scarring from episiotomy or c-section
•other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
•increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
•loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
•higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
•newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:
•complications of episiotomy
•spousal/partner abuse
•hyperemesis gravidarum
•temporary and permanent injury to back
•severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
•dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
•pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
•eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
•gestational diabetes
•placenta previa
•anemia (which can be life-threatening)
•thrombocytopenic purpura
•severe cramping
•embolism (blood clots)
•medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
•diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
•mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
•serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
•hormonal imbalance
•ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
•broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
•hemorrhage and
•numerous other complications of delivery
•refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
•aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
•severe post-partum depression and psychosis
•research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
•research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
•research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:
•peripartum cardiomyopathy
•cardiopulmonary arrest
•magnesium toxicity
•severe hypoxemia/acidosis
•massive embolism
•increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
•molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
•malignant arrhythmia
•circulatory collapse
•placental abruption
•obstetric fistula
More permanent side effects:
•future infertility
•permanent disability
•death.

 

You are being dismissive, because you will never, ever have to experience it yourself. Your refusal to acknowledge the damage done by pregnancy justifies (in your mind) treating women like broodstock.

 

It's funny, I have often said that Anders considers women nothing more than "baby making machines"......and as best I recollect...

he's never once denied it?

 

You have said you don't mind people being dishonest, Sam?

http://www.politicalforum.com/abortion/387008-frog-boiling-strategy-pro-life-movement.html

 

Ever heard of psyllium?

Well, maybe if she didn't stuff herself with pickles and ice cream during the pregnancy

might help counteract that weight gain

Bo ho ho

Can happen with an abortion too.

Them knockers are just getting ready for the baby.

Well which is it?
Maybe the woman will get lucky and suffer alopecia from the neck down.

prenatal vitamins

a little cocoa butter rubbed on there twice a day will prevent any problems

Could be for the better, if you choose to see the cup half full.

Could likely be even worse if she chooses abortion:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/abortion-and-suicide-the-grim-statistics

Much more likely if she gets an abortion.

 

Some people can't hide their contempt for women, or maybe they want to flaunt it.

 

As I said before, youre taking my quote out of context. I believe in honesty as a general moral principle to be followed, but there are certain situations where being 100% honest just doesnt work. For example, if youre lobbying to undermine an unjust law, you cant just openly state what your agenda is-you got to sugercoat it under certain terminology, like what the people in Texas did with hygeine.

 

From common sense and logic.

Because it is not your body that is being injured, it is hers.

for exactly the same reasons you have the choice to allow yourself to be injured by another or not.

 

Who cares, the birth is not the issue here.

I suggest you look up what natural means, you will find it means "Existing in or derived from nature; not made or caused by humankind:" - http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/natural

There is a 100% chance you could avoid falling off a bike if you made different decisions, does the fact that you decided to take that risk mean you are not allowed to seek medical rectifications for any injuries you may sustain?

 

Your very short list and your "solutions" hardly addresses what happens to women during pregnancy....and your descriptions in your "solutions" show your total and complete disrespect for women and delight in their suffering.

 

How can he after that post.

Always happens, eventually the Anti-Choicers ALWAYS reveal their total disrespect and hatred for women.

 

you are being both, and perhaps you can explain why pregnancy is considered a serious literal injury in some cases -

Nebraska, which defines “serious personal injury” as “great bodily injury or disfigurement, extreme mental anguish or mental trauma, pregnancy, disease, or loss or impairment of a sexual or reproductive organ.” Nebraska’s statute can be read as stating not simply that pregnancy is like a serious personal injury, but rather that pregnancy is a serious personal injury: pregnancy is an injury. Michigan’s statute does the same work, defining “personal injury” as “bodily injury, disfigurement, mental anguish, chronic pain, pregnancy, disease, or loss or impairment of a sexual or reproductive organ.” Case law establishing that pregnancy could be considered a “substantial bodily injury” that aggravates the sexual assault and increases the sentence imposed performs the same work as statutes that explicitly define pregnancy as a substantial bodily injury.

and while you are trying to do that perhaps you can state whether you think the following would be classified as extensive damage if they were forced upon you by another;

Suppression of local immune system
400% increase in hormones
15% increase in blood pressure
40% increase in cardiac volume
Growth of a new organ
Entire circulatory system rerouted

and whether you would have the right to use self-defence, up to and including deadly force, in order to stop those injuries?

 

Typically you cherry pick and even then you post false items, you do know that the lifesitenews item you link to has been totally trashed by people who actually know what they are talking about .. but hey don't let that stop you posting BS.

- - - Updated - - -

100% hypocrisy.

 

How am I being a hypocrite? Nothing I stated contradicts my political views.

 

How are you blatantly being a hypocrite? Oh, by saying it's immoral to get an abortion, immoral to lie, but if lying helps your side it's OK.

And that is why we don't use the shifting sands of "morals" to make laws....SOME people only think morals should control OTHER people....

 

I believe in honesty as a general moral principle to be followed

but there are certain situations where being 100% honest just doesnt work

So the ends justifies the means for you, you believe in honesty until honesty won't get you what you want . .that is the very definition of hypocrisy.

 

How else can pro lifers pass stricter legislation without that?

 

If they cannot do it without that then they should be reassessing what they are trying to do.

It is so dishonest to try and get laws passed based on lies just because the facts don't support your viewpoint, you would be the first one to jump up and down if others did it .. you display hypocrisy at its finest

 

What are some lies I said I want laws based off of? I never mentioned that, I just mentioned being dishonest about motivation for laws being passed.