What the virus has taught me (and maybe yourself as well)

What is a "related" death, and why would they matter? If someone didn't die from the virus, they didn't die from the virus. They died because of something else. For example, if a doctor in the ER kills herself, and the ER had Wuhan Flu patients, she still killed herself. She want' "killed" by the virus, was she?

 

You can only put forward conjecture about what MIGHT have happened - reality is reality, not what you think might have happened if no lock-downs had been implemented.

 

Here's what the virus has taught John Stossel:



It's time for the FDA to abandon its authoritative, mystical power and do something practical.

 

I was responding to why NY City had more infections than L.A. It is what it is.

 

Which studies are those that put the death rate above 2%?
It’s certainly not that high when asymptomatic or people with few symptoms are taken into consideration.

But the flu’s death rate that you’re referring to is the death rate WITH a vaccine for the flu. Without the vaccine it would be much higher.

 

Map Fail. Of course, not surprised. Straw man and red herring in one. Take any old flu map from any old year and see a similar type of distribution of flu and flu-like illnesses. Again, for the slow, no one claimed that corona or flu doesn't exist across the country, it does. The claim is that for the vast majority of the population of the country, in light of bad models and light results, the designation "epidemic" is not warranted any more than it is for the average flu season.

The harsher results from corona are localized, and "coincidentally" almost solely within large corrupt, blue, union governed cities, and harsh, unlawful, wrongful mitigation is also unwarranted in other than the few places where corona is more than just another seasonal flu.

 

Your argument is that the virus is not a localized event because the map looks similar to the seasonal flu while simultaneously ignoring that the seasonal flu is not some localized event.

This virus is objectively more lethal and more contagious than the "seasonal flu." There are no antivirals or vaccines for covid-19. So no, it is not "just another seasonal flu."

The designation epidemic applies as soon as a virus has reached the point where containment no longer works. And because containment no longer works, any region of the country that is not currently experiencing a significant incidence of impact will eventually see their infections rise significantly. And, in the absence of pandemic control measures in those areas, the infections will spike and potentially overwhelm the localized medical infrastructure.

 

I don't know that it is saving lives. Social distancing, et. al., is slowing down the spread but it won't stop the pandemic. It will continue until there is herd immunity or a vaccine.

 

Yes, there is no vaccine for covid-19 and that is objectively one of the reasons why this virus is much more lethal than the seasonal flu and it will remain that way for a while yet to come.

As for studies that put the death rate above 2%, the WHO put out its estimate based on Chinese data and put the number at 3.4% a while ago. Since then, there are literally millions of points of data that can be used to estimate the mortality rate.

And while it is certainly true that the true case count is being undercounted, it is also very likely true that the true death count is being undercounted as well.

 

Oh, so we have started the sliding by repeating your posts as opposed to honestly responding. OK then:

Due to previously stated and ignored factors such as the irrefutable gross ineptitude and possible corruption of the models, there is no epidemic if results across the planet, and for our purposes, in the U.S., are not remotely uniform. Instead, deadly outlier effects (in comparison to seasonal flu and flu-like-illness) of Covid are localized, NOT "epidemic," making "one size fits all" mitigation attempts ridiculous, and in a vast majority of U.S.cities and towns, UNLAWFUL and WRONGFUL, in fact far more deadly and damaging than the LOCALIZED effects on a FEW, SPECIFIC types of locales. Removing the few (5) most affected urban areas across a whole vast country to contrast with many relatively unaffected cities and towns, to get a more accurate assessment of the risks across the REST of the country should drive the point home even for someone such as yourself.

As far as the second (also repetitive and nonresponsive) "one size fits" claim in your post, you have exactly -0- evidence that the other several hundred medium to large cities in the country will be affected in any way remotely similarly to the few large, blue, union-governed, incompetent cities like NY where they purposefully seed sick people into otherwise more healthy nursing homes. In fact we have numerous datapoints counter BECAUSE THOSE OTHER HUNDREDS OF LARGE-SMALL CITIES HAVE NOT BEEN SIMILARLY AFFECTED. For a vast majority of the cities and towns in the U.S., this "pandemic" has been a watered down flu that can hasten death... for those already at death's door.

 

A related death occurs in a host of different circumstances and I am not trying to track down their definition for you.

But if someone avoids seeking medical treatment for an unrelated, but treatable condition, because of a fear of catching Covid-19, that is a covid related death. If a patient is unable to obtain the appropriate level of care because the healthcare system is overwhelmed by covid-19, then that is a covid related death. If a doctor in the ER kills herself because of the stress created by treating covid-19 patients, that is also likely a covid related death.

 

LOL.. not a scientist... got it. It is remarkable just how dishonest folks like you and the left are these days...

 

1. Wrong, the first set of faulty models included mitigation factors. Moreover, the rapid model decline over a short time period evidences very clearly that there was never going to be people keeling over in the streets desperately trying to get a spot in a crammed full hospital. Of course they aren't going to just come out and admit that, they are lying, blame-shifting, corrupt bureaucrats after all. Don't bother with orangeman, he had no choice or watch the country burn and was also misled. Trump's Achilles Heel is being to trusting and confident in the way private sector often are when first exposed to the gross incompetence of highly paid Complex poltroons.
2. Wrong, we now have plenty of well-tested, non mitigated areas in the world with no outsized outbreak. Last I checked, the mortality rate of Sweden was exactly the same as the US mortality rate.
3. Wrong, the current weight of scientific evidence is that the virus began earlier in flu season, is far more contagious and widespread than previously believed, and again, led to few significant outbreaks.
4. Wrong, no credible scientific evidence supports lockdowns of the healthy, social distancing, etc., as effective mitigation factors. In hindsight, that is emerging as pure professional bureaucrat "broscience."

 

Why are you calling me dishonest?

 

My argument is -exactly- as posted in crystal clear terms and 8th grade English. The above is an amusing misstatement of it. Your map attempt failed, figure out some new fallacy to try next, or you could try honest direct arguments instead for a change.

The virus is arguably somewhat worse than seasonal flu in a FEW specific localized areas in the U.S. having similar characteristics already posted...namely CORRUPT, Democrat, union-governed, near bankrupt... what a boon COVID19 has been for those dishonest enough to try to milk it. Other than those few urban areas, across the REST of the country, there is no scientific evidence making the Viral Moral Panic of 2020 any worse than any other flu season, and therefore extreme mitigation is unlawful and immoral.

Now, if the prevailing accurate emerging scientific data, models, studies, world-wide and country-wide deathcounts, hospital/equipment/testing readiness, suddenly become somehow invalidated, we can revisit. There is no reason to do that currently, so for now, there is no reason for anyone to be ANTISCIENCE or a FLAT EARTHER about the "well-settled" state (ROFLMFAO... hilarious to type that) of COVID19 SCIENCE. There is/was no global pandemic but localized outliers... as a matter of SCIENCE. There is no foundation for onerous AUTHORITARIAN (ROFLMAO... going to make a whole thread on this one) mitigation methods as a matter of SCIENCE.

So why does the LW HATE SCIENCE so much? ROFL. Are they becoming "evangelical?"

No, every common cold in a school or a town is not an "epidemic." Not surprised at all that a vague, nebulous definition is advocated by those motivated more by politics than truth, but there it is. Not surprised at completely omitting the "global" part, but there it is.

 

"Just two weeks! and then two more and then two more, and we will be right on the doorstep of ballot harvesting!"

Silvio to Paulie

 

I've about had it with the virus thing. I am beginning to believe it may be a left wing hoax for the following reasons:

1. I don't know anyone who has it, nor does anyone I know KNOW anyone who has it. Maybe it's just in NYC.
2. I never did believe the asymptomatic business. I do believe, if this really exists, that, like many viruses, you may be contagious before you have symptoms. I also think the asymptomatic thing began because when this started, the tests probably weren't great, and the people taking them and the people reading them didn't know how to do it very well; after all this was "uncharted territory." So I think they came up with a lot of false positives or question marks and in caution, just called them positive. And think about this...if asymptomatic were true, we would be finished because every single person would have to be tested...every day! I don't think the experts really believe it either because they would want EVERYONE tested if they believed it, but they say if you don't have symptoms, you don't need to get tested.
3. This is turning out way too much like a leftist's dream, big government controlling every move we make. The tech companies must be laughing all the way to the bank when the only way we can communicate is to use their devices. Someone said we are living the green new deal, no air travel, economy tanks, etc. etc. How convenient.
4. Liberals are way too defensive about any good news. Anyone who shows any optimism is just a liar. They will argue that no it can't be ending, we must stay under control forever, yada yada yada.

For these reasons I'm starting to wonder if it's true at all. I mean what evidence do most of us have, other than the media says so?

 

intriguing response.

Virus droplets can travel up to 29 feet, not 6. Especially if someone sneezes in the wind. This major cause of death comes from the fact the virus is still preying on the immune compromised and elderly. Most elderly victims of COVID-19 people aren't going to dig through medical history of the victim, so someone could have died largely from congestive heart failure, the leading cause of death in the states, but they could've contracted COVID shortly before their death. Making COVID, not cardiovascular disease on a patient, is much more attractive to governors and mayors eager to play dictator with orders currently in place. In fact, even if you contract COVID-19, unless you have lung or heart issues, you are likely to recover from the ailment as if it were like its brother, influenza. Symptoms in people with immune systems that function normally will experience mild symptoms, and not die.

Keeping the country closed forever in hopes of fulfilling the pipe dream of fully flattening the curve is not feasible. Some will die, but most will live. Count the losses and go full steam ahead.

 

Bush was responsible for the lives lost and damage done over Katrina and Iraq, Trump will be held responsible for the outcome of COVID-19, and how many die. The media is not the POTUS, and elected leaders are responsible whether or not its in their control. The medical community, the CDC and the WHO have contributed to this pandemic, with ridiculous guidelines in hopes of controlling people.

 

Pneumonia without Covid is a much bigger killer.

 

Tell us how this is a hoax exactly.

One can be a mere optimist, or they can wake up, smell the ozone and be a realist.

 

5. Now do "What do the corrupt, fiscally unstable, union-Democrat-run, Blue cities with these inexplicably outsized virus counts... compared most of the whole rest of the country and almost all the world... gain by

a) convenient bankruptcy deflection virus scapegoat with perfect timing that could be milked for a decade or more for federal aid, and all manner of all graft (overpay, overpension...) concealer?
b) a Hail Mary for flagging election hopes against Orangemanbad in Nov.?
c) a glimmer of hope that somehow this fear mania will create support for corrupt ballot harvesting fraud?
d) enrich the FAKE NEWS branch of the Democrat Party, lots of which sits right in NYC?"

 

It has killed more than 60,000 in the US. By the end of the week, it will have killed more people than the flu has killed in a year for at least the past decade (likely further back) . . . and that's after social distancing measures and with the winter still to come. We haven't seen a flu as deadly as this for a century. Pretending this is a normal disease is a dangerous fantasy.

 

The flue killed 61,000 to 63,000 last flu season.

 

Source?

It has killed more than 60,000 in the US. By the end of the week, it will have killed more people than the flu has killed in a year for at least the past decade (likely further back) . . . and that's after social distancing measures and with the winter still to come. We haven't seen a flu as deadly as this for a century. Pretending this is a normal disease is a dangerous fantasy.