Even as vaccine numbers rise, Democrats double down on masks

No, sterilizing immunity is not rare in vaccines in general as I’ve pointed out by listing many. If it was rare I would not be able to rattle off a list and point out the error of your source on poliovirus vaccines. And your presentation of this incorrect statement is a strawman argument because until you mentioned other vaccines all the information on percentages of vaccinees attaining sterilizing immunity referred to the COVID vaccines in use in the US. I was quite clear about that.

I’m uninterested in vaccines not targeted to SARS-CoV-2 but since you made another false claim I pointed out there are many vaccines that induce sterilizing immunity.

Do you read what you post? Your pull quote says current COVID vaccines do not produce sterilizing immunity in everyonethat is vaccinated! Hello-that’s what I’ve been telling you. Read this again please.

Either you have serious reading comprehension problems or you are being intentionally disingenuous. I have NEVER claimed all COVID vaccinees acquire sterilizing immunity. In fact I’ve provided the percentages from the studies I also produced including the empirical evidence to support my posts. Read again please.

Your selectively edited (by you) quote:

No. Your entire statement (supplied again because you are now editing out the most fallacious parts) is false.

Vaccines (COVID vaccines being used in the US and the list of other vaccines I provided) DO induce sterilizing immunity. They DO prevent people from being infected. The studies I’ve provided supply the ratios of sterilizing immunity vs functional immunity in the populations the studies observed. COVID vaccines and others create titres of neutralizing antibodies that render virons incapable of causing an infection. These antibodies are in the blood stream and organs like the spleen before the vaccinee is exposed to the virus. They are not produced in response to infection.

This is not anal drivel. It’s fact. And it’s important because continuing to tell people these vaccines do not prevent infection or limit transmission is having serious negative consequences. People don’t see the point of being vaccinated if it doesn’t protect others or keep them from being infected. When you call facts anal drivel you are no different than someone who denies Brownian motion effects in mask’s ability to stop viral transmission. You are in direct denial of science and you are harming others by being less than honest about how good these vaccines are.

Now, for third parties, just remember, I have posted studies containing empirical evidence for sterilizing immunity from COVID vaccines. In contrast, T&J has presented months-old assumptions, unsubstantiated opinion, sources that don’t know many vaccines in common use induce sterilizing immunity, and even a link stating exactly what I’ve claimed—that COVID vaccines do not induce sterilizing immunity in all recipients.

This following claim is direct denial of science. It is in direct denial of sterilizing immunity.The claim “that is not how the immune system works” is patently false. It is patently false that COVID vaccines (and others) do not prevent infection. They do and we should be glad they do—not continue to mislead others by claiming they do not.

 

All you can do is warn others. Science deniers seldom change their ways.

 

LOL More denial and wall of text from you spouting irrelevant nonsense!

And yet another lie from you. My source is dated 31st March 2021, you know, more recent than your links :
Which bit of ""The vaccines currently available against SARS-CoV-2 do not induce sterilising immunity" did you not understand?

Where is your peer reviewed study showing "This is sterilizing immunity (facilitated by the action of neutralizing antibodies) and occurs in approximately 80-95% of vaccinees (depending on the vaccine)."? Show me your peer reviewed studies that state the vaccine gives sterilizing immunity to 80-95% of vaccinnnees
And LOL at your example of a polio vaccine as a sterilizing immunity vaccine then go on to describe the vaccine that IS NOT used in the US who do use a vaccine that doesn't give sterilizing immunity!

And more irrelevant nonsense from you - "I’m uninterested in vaccines not targeted to SARS-CoV-2". My quote you first posted was about vaccines in general, there was no mention of Covid! Here, let me help you:

Me: The possible side effects of Invermectin are horrendous, far worse than the side effects of any vaccine

Me: No one ever said that a vaccine will prevent people from being infected - that is not how the immune system works. The body responds to actually being infected to start to mass produce antibodies to fight the infection. A vaccine pre-arms the immune system with the right weapon to use against the infection

Do you comprehend what using the single letter word "a" or three letter word "any" means?

 

Never tired of spreading fake news, are you.

 

That is a serious allegation. Provide the evidence that shows the direct link. There is none. The women who have spontaneous abortions may have ended up having them even if they had not tyaken the vaccine. That is why such issues require careful thought out study to make sure the moprtality or negative event is directly caused and not coincidental.

Sadly people die every day with Covid 19 but do not die from the Covid 19 but other diseases that may or may not have been exasperated or worsened by Covid 19. To conclusively know what is the cause of death and what CONTRIBUTES to factors that then led to death and what factors were coincidentan and arose in spite of Covidf19 and would have anyways is very difficult to research and it will take time. Any one of us with pre-existing chronic conditions of the immunity system, heart disease, diabetes, cpd, cancer, liver disease,kidney disease, bronchitis, asthma and so many other conditions could get Covid 19 and not get worse or show no symptoms at al , some will be vulnerable and have non fatal complications, and some will die because of complications triggered by the Covid 19 that would not otherwise have been triggered and some will die because of Covid 19 complications to the lungs and blood vessels.

You need to slow down before you make accusations without any proof. That is the kind of fear mongering that helps no one. Covid 19 protocol for pregnant women and for that matter people with pre-existing medical conditions is a very serious matter. Don't make it sound like its being deliberately ignored by doctors or anyone. That is malicious with due respect.

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases.../in-depth/pregnancy-and-covid-19/art-20482639

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...nancy-data-on-covid-19/what-cdc-is-doing.html

The above is info on pregnancy and covid 19.

Also with due respect to the debate I do appreciate there is legitimate concern to question the covid 19 for pregnant women, i.e.,

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...-between-covid-19-and-pregnancy-complications

I am not denying there is a concern. I just think we need to be responsible not stating it in a way that immediately assumes any pregnant woman who took a covid 19 vaccine or chooses to take one is a murderer or doctors are engaged in conspiracies to engage in abortions.

 

For the sake of discussion, using the term very loosely, what is the point of being "vaccinated" with these gene altering concoctions? What do I gain from taking that shot?

 

Antibodies that target COVID viruses.

 

I get that from alternative sites that you never visit. That is, if you're expecting to see the truth published by mainstream media, it ain't gonna happen.

I visit sites that print essentially the opposite narrative to what you consume.

You stay with Lester Holt and Anthony Fauci, and I'll go the other way. Deal?

 

No, it's real news.

An excellent way of determining that is to observe that those stories are NOT COVERED by mainstream media. If they don't report on it, it's most likely true and accurate.

 

Look pal, it's all over the internet. A friend of mine knows 2 young women that spontaneously aborted a month after the shots.

There is alot that goes on the world that YOU are not aware of, FYI

 

Did you know that antibodies are but one component of the immune system? Did you know that antibodies don't last forever, but the other components are always present and always active?

 

You just selectively edited your source. Here is the full quote.

The sources you supplied prior were all before my linked studies. This March 31 article you have now provided admits there is sterilizing immunity conferred by COVID vaccines, just as I’ve said, but claims not every vaccinee acquires sterilizing immunity, just as I’ve said and reposted again now for your edification. Your latest source agrees with me because it is based on the same types of studies I’ve presented. Your earlier links predated the research I’ve linked to. I made that very clear in the post I responded to them in, supplying your dates and mine.

You are claiming because sterilizing immunity is not induced in a small percentage of vaccinees it doesn’t exist in any vaccinees. You can’t take things out of context. Your source clearly states some vaccinees have sterilizing immunity but some do not. Just like I have said many times.

Sure. I’ve posted studies twice. One is a preprint under review, one is internally peer reviewed by the CDC as is customary, and the third is a large data set published by many outlets.

Remember as you ask for sources you have now provided a link making the exact claim I have been making—that sterilizing immunity and functional immunity both exist in relation to Covid vaccines. Your own source directly contradicts your claim vaccines don’t prevent infections and that isn’t how the immune system works.

Your source claimed current poliovirus vaccines (plural) do not confer sterilizing immunity. There are two current types, OPV and IPV. I simply pointed out their error in claiming neither type confers sterilizing immunity. Use of the OPV that provides sterilizing immunity is the type responsible for helping to eradicate polio from most of the planet. Your source inferred the IPV is hoped to eradicate polio where it still exists, failing to realize it’s the OPV that is being used for this purpose. My point was only to show your source has no understanding of poliovirus vaccines and provided misinformation about them. I guess it is funny you fall for such nonsense repeatedly.

You aren’t doing yourself any favors here. You’ve made another false statement. Here are the side effects of ivermectin.
More common—for the treatment of river blindness (onchocerciasis) only

1. Fever, itching or skin rash
2. joint or muscle pain
3. painful and tender glands in neck, armpits, or groin
4. rapid heartbeat

Less common—for the treatment of river blindness (onchocerciasis) only

1. Headache
2. swelling of the face, hands, arms, feet, or legs

Less common—for the treatment of strongyloidiasis only

1. Diarrhea
2. dizziness
3. skin rash or itching

Rare—for the treatment of river blindness (onchocerciasis) only

1. Lightheadedness when getting up from a lying or sitting position

Rare—for the treatment of strongyloidiasis only

1. Loss of appetite
2. shaking or trembling
3. sleepiness

Now, a side effect of the oral poliovirus vaccine is clinical polio. Like paralysis or death. I’m pretty sure that’s worse than side effects from Ivermectin. Even overdosing on Ivermectin and dying is not worse than dying of polio. So, your statement is false. There are certainly vaccine side effects as bad or worse than side effects of Ivermectin.

Now, this notorious post of yours...

...was in reply to a PF member who was specifically discussing Covid vaccines. The discussion has always involved Covid vaccines. That’s why they are of primary interest to me and others. They also are a perfect example of “a” vaccine that most certainly confers sterilizing immunity.

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make with “a” and “any” but your statements are false no matter if you use “a” or “any”. The immune system most certainly works by neutralizing viruses before they can infect. Your recent source even says so!

 

Yes.

 

Liar. I have never claimed that no vaccines induce sterilising immunity.

Wrong. The link states ".The vaccines currently available against SARS-CoV-2 do not induce sterilising immunity". Adding a definition for sterilising immunity does not help your cause! Can you not comprehend what "i.e. complete protection from subsequent infection in everyone that is vaccinated" means?
All your wall of waffling text and you still haven't provided a quote from any peer reviewed studies that state that sterilising immunity has been demonstrated in any of the Covid vaccines. As usual all you've done is write streams and streams of irrelevance in your attempt to whitewash your posts

 

LOL. I guess when you can’t produce empirical evidence sterilizing immunity doesn’t exist for Covid vaccines and are shown it does (and in many other common vaccines as well) you get emotional.

Well you sure did claim that. Just because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of immunology and say things you don’t understand doesn’t mean you aren’t denying science. When you say...

...you are claiming sterilizing immunity does not exist.

When you claim that isn’t how the immune system works you deny sterilizing immunity. And you did it in response to a poster specifically talking about Covid vaccines

You have intentionally selectively edited the pull quote again. Here is the complete one again.

What this means is current vaccines induce sterilizing immunity in some vaccinees and not in others. If there was no sterilizing immunity the statement would read “current vaccines do not induce sterilizing immunity” or “current vaccines do not induce sterilizing immunity in anyone that is vaccinated”.

Your source confirms what I’ve been telling you. These vaccines induce sterilizing immunity in 80-95% of vaccinees. The rest get functional immunity or none at all.

 

Well you know I just post based on empirical evidence and have no agenda so I’ll just come right out and be blunt. You may gain nothing. You may gain nothing but a sore arm. You may save your life. Hard to say. Covid affects everyone differently and everyone has a different level of risk of exposure to SARS-CoV-2.

If you are interested I’ll give you my take on the term “vaccine” and on the gene altering bit.

 

Another lie from you, your MO. Nothing was edited out. I wrote, The link states ".The vaccines currently available against SARS-CoV-2 do not induce sterilising immunity". Adding a definition for sterilising immunity does not help your cause! Can you not comprehend what "i.e. complete protection from subsequent infection in everyone that is vaccinated" means?.

You clearly don't know what is required to conclude that a vaccine does induce sterilising immunity!

I'm still waiting for you to post a quote from any peer reviewed studies that state that sterilising immunity has been demonstrated in any of the Covid vaccines, tick tock tick tock. You keep running away from it in your desperate attempt to whitewash your walls of text

 

When you repeatedly post only the first half of the sentence adding a period where none exists in the source you are selectivity editing. The fact remains, no matter how you break it up, sterilizing immunity is induced in some but not all vaccinees receiving current Covid vaccines.

Of course I do. Every source I have provided and your source clearly state both symptomatic and asymptomatic infections are prevented. When asymptomatic infections are prevented sterilizing immunity is indicated.

Already done. By myself and by you. My CDC link and a few of the studies in your link are reviewed.

If you are SO sure sterilizing immunity doesn’t exist, where are your studies showing sterilizing immunity has not been induced by current vaccines? When I can produce studies showing it does exist and you can’t provide any showing it doesn’t, shouldn’t you at least stop and reconsider your position? When you attempt to provide a link supporting your position and it contains multiple studies showing the same percentages of reductions in symptomatic and asymptomatic infections I claim, you are pretty much out of arguments.

So, if you think the CDC is incorrect and all the other studies from around the world showing prevented infections both symptomatic and asymptomatic are incorrect, provide your own studies showing there is no reduction in asymptomatic infections after vaccination. For you to be correct, that is what you need to show—that vaccination does not reduce asymptomatic infections. Go....

 

Still waiting for you to post a quote from any peer reviewed study that state that sterilising immunity has been demonstrated in any of the Covid vaccines, tick tock tick tock. You keep running away from it in your desperate attempt to whitewash your walls of text

Now let's see what the experts say is required to provide strong evidence that a vaccine provides sterilizing immunity, you know, evidence that is yet to be published but is required to conclude that any Covid vaccine provides sterilizing immunity:

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/de...ction-of-SARS-CoV-2-following-vaccination.pdf

In conclusion: The vaccines currently available against SARS-CoV-2 do not induce sterilising immunity (i.e. complete protection from subsequent infection) in everyone that is vaccinated. LOL at your anal retentiveness as if a "period" makes any difference to the statement. BTW when you read that statement do you pause between the word "immunity" and "(" ?.

 

Again, CDC study.

Now let’s see your peer reviewed study showing sterilizing immunity is not resulting from COVID vaccines. Go...

The people producing the studies I’ve presented and the studies you have presented are experts. Every single study concludes between 80-95% of infections (both symptomatic and a symptomatic) are prevented in vaccinees. Community transmission in unvaccinated individuals in the study population is occurring in ALL of these studies. If there were no infections in the unvaccinated population there would not be any data because there would be no denominator in the ratio producing the 80-95% statistics.

Now you seem to be claiming sterilizing immunity only occurs if EVERY vaccinee develops sterilizing immunity? If that is your claim, please provide evidence of one vaccine known to mankind that is considered to confer sterilizing immunity that confers it to EVERY VACCINEE. Go....

80-95% reduction of all infection in vaccinees in the presence of community transmission in unvaccinated peers is strong evidence of sterilizing immunity. If sterilizing immunity is not the cause of 95% of vaccinees not becoming infected, perhaps you could fill us in on what IS preventing their infection. Maybe Vit. D levels? Or maybe they are snorting hydroxychloroquine? Or do they just refuse to admit COVID is real? LOL. What is preventing infection? Go...

 

That's your answer? I asked you what basis you have to allege the Covid 19 vaccine has caused spontaneous abortions and that is your answer, "look pal...it's all over the internet?

...Lol this coming from you who claims the internet is full of false info? Make up your mind-is the evidence all over the internet false or true hmmmmm?

Come on Eleu...get back to me when you can do better then that. I know there are legitimate concerns with the vaccine...we all do.

However, you however have made a fear mongering unsubstantiated claim and you can't back it up.

 

https://www.verywellhealth.com/covid-19-vaccines-and-sterilizing-immunity-5092148

There is no proof of sterilizing immunity with Covid 19 and no one in the scientific community has said there is. It would be an ideal thing if it could occur. In fact he current vaccine candidates (Pfizer and Moderna) have demonstrated the ability to reduce symptoms and the number of viruses in the lower respiratory tract, but there is no evidence of sterilizing immunity in the upper respiratory tract. No such evidence exists at this time and this is why you will note to date 557 has not produced any such evidence.

It doesn't mean the vaccine is not effective. It doesn't mean we should not take it. It does mean its not a 100% cure and assuming once you take the shots you never will get it and spread it is silly. No one who has created the vaccines has ever represented them as being a 100% cure against Covid 19 and unless the vaccine provides 100% immunity it by its inherent nature is not sterilizing, its symptom diminishing which can save lives of peope who get it and might otherwise get far sicker without the vaccine but its not sterilizing. Our current vaccines are not cures-they are risk reduction tools to try decrease medical complications in people who catch Covid 19. It could be the technology being used when perfected in the coming years may however in some cases lead to a "sterilizing" effect for certain viruses or illnesses and dare we say it thinks like aids or cancer.

 

Your link does not state that any covid vaccine has met the requirements to be categorized as a sterilizing immunity vaccine. There is no mention of the word "sterilizing in your quote, so still waiting. Perhaps you could post the actual peer reviewed study as I could not find it?. In your link there is no reference to any control group

I never claimed that there is any evidence either way on whether any of the vaccines will or won't give sterilizing immunity. The default is sterilizing immunity is not achieved until proven otherwise

That is not the requirement for concluding that a vaccine provides sterilizing immunity

Never claimed that. No studies up to date have shown that any of the covid vaccines induce sterilizing immunity that meets the requirement to be called a sterilizing immunity vaccine.

 

You seem to have some idea what sterilizing immunity is so I’ll start by asking some questions.

What do you make of this quote ?

Can you provide us with any vaccine known to mankind that is considered sterilizing that induced sterilizing immunity in every vaccinee?

Do you accept RT-PCR as a method of determining if an individual is infected with SARS-CoV-2? Do you accept PCR testing as an acceptable method of determining if an individual is infected with an influenza virus?

Is the scientific community lying when they say Covid vaccines prevent symptomatic and asymptomatic infections?

Do you know of a third type of infection beyond symptomatic and asymptomatic infections?

Is the scientific community you say isn’t saying there’s “proof” (I would hope no serious member of the scientific community would claim proof in the affirmative or the negative) of sterilizing immunity (even though T&J’s link admits there is both sterilizing and functional/effective immunity induced in COVID vaccinees) the same scientific community that convinced people to wear masks in the places least likely to be infected but seldom recommended any mitigation in places most likely to be infected? Is it the same scientific community that has lied to you about the death toll from influenza for years? The same community who convinced you if we just had enough PCR tests we could end the pandemic? The same scientific community that watched probably 300,000 Americans die as they continued to recommend cloth masks instead of available N95 quality masks?

The HPV vaccine is universally considered to induce sterilizing immunity. Did you know breakthrough infections exist? Did you know studies that provided the evidence (not proof) it induces sterilizing immunity are based on yearly mucosal samples? How does this “prove” there are not undetected and cleared infections between screenings?

Have I claimed there is “proof” of anything? The term “proof” is dangerous when the attempt is made to shoehorn it into the scientific method.

Did you realize your link was published long before any of the evidence I’ve provided was published?