Even as vaccine numbers rise, Democrats double down on masks

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by XXJefferson#51, Apr 20, 2021.

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  1. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Several months ago the writer Alex Berenson contradicted information offered by David Martin. Martin had said no animal tests were done with these injections. Berenson said that there had been limited animal tests, only on rats. No other species.

    Berenson claimed that in those tests, they quickly noted that all pregnant rats tested lost their pregnancy.

    It appears the human subjects are experiencing exactly what the rats experienced. No surprise, understanding the reasons the law demands animal tests before human tests.
     
  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    No, I’m not a bit surprised 60 lost pregnancies have been reported after vaccination. There are about 750,000 lost pregnancies in the US per year. In a four month period that we’ve been vaccinating we would expect 250,000 miscarriages regardless of any vaccination. Now that over 50,000,000 women have been vaccinated and there is so far no evidence the vaccines caused any miscarriages the VAERS data is expected but not concerning.

    If someone can show me the documented mechanism by which these miscarriages were caused by vaccination you will have my attention.
     
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  3. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

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  4. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

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    Link to a report, please? No? Not even a fishy one as usual?
     
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  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    The only animal testing I’m aware of with these vaccines is with mice and macaques.
     
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  6. Bridget

    Bridget Well-Known Member

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    President Biden won on covid and that's all. He now appears to believe he can take credit for a successful vaccine, and yet continue to keep covid in front of us as a big, scary thing that we need his leadership to get through (even though we'll never see the end of it). Someone has told him he can have it both ways. He can't. Either the vaccine works and he can claim he's ushered us out of covid, or they don't so why are we being told to take the vaccine? He will have to make a decision soon.
     
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  7. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    You are not being genuine on this forum with anyone on this thread. You can not know what my opinions are as to any article you provide until you provide it. To say you will not because you think I will disagree with it is nonsensical. Are yiu that afraid of me? Lol.

    Come on El. lf your article shows a direct link to miscarriages provide it.Either provide proof of your allegations or move on. You are making yourself look silly. I am only interested in seeing your evidence to try understand the basis of your conclusions.

    Do not assume you know what my response to any evidence is until you provide that evidence. Until then you are not being sincere and I have never come on so board to insult you but I will call you out as fear mongering if you do not provide a basis for your allegations.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
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  8. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Eleuthra asked, "Do you not accept the VAERS report?

    Well I read it. Pleasecdo so. See for yourself.it says and anyone can find it and read it that the rate of miscarriages was not any different with people who took the vaccine from women who did not have the vaccine and in fact said because of that it is premature to draw a direct cause and effect link between the Covid 19 vaccines and miscarriages.

    How then would that be your basis for Eleu to clai the link comes from that article? Come on El. You know what it stated.

    Look if anyone genuinely knows of any evidence that proves a cause and effect link with a Covid 19 vaccine please share. No study to date has shown any direct link and anything other than coincidental miscarriages that would have occurred anyways.

    Please if someone has evidence provide it. At this point with due respect to Eleu he has no proof.

    There is always concern when any person with a pre- existing medical condition takes a vaccine but it is irresponsible and dishonest to spread unsubstantiated allegations of negative side effects without proof they were caused by the vaccine.

    The irony is people may needlessly die from the very fear mongering by people like Eleu who claim they are concerned people might die from the vaccine not because they took it but because they did not take it.

    So I urge anyone before you fear anything including Covid 19 or the vaccines, go talk to your gp, obyn, pharmacist, pediatrician, immunologist, dentist, nurse, physician's assistant. They can all explain the issues. Or go to the hospital web sites like the Mayo clinic.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
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  9. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Your questions makes no logical sense. Covid 19 vaccines do not cure or Covid 19 and no one claims it does. Mr. Biden has never taken credit for the Covid 19 vaccines. Provide one statement where he did. Go on provide the words.

    Next no one, not Fauci, Biden, Phizer, Moderna, Astra Zeneca, Johnson and Johnson, Madonna, Harry and Meaghen, Kim Kardashian, The Rock, has claimed the vaccines cure Covid 19. They are symptom suppressants so that if people do contract it they are less likely to die from it. Please at least find out what the vaccines do.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
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  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    You have a knack for swallowing official narratives, lock, stock and barrel. You have a knack for consuming official narratives even when facts and evidence contradict those narratives. That makes you quite common.

    When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts.

    You and 557 can disregard the building data and you can disregard what those 5 women say and other dissenters say. That shows you to be good subjects to the narrative.

    I prefer the dissenters because the facts support their claims, and the known liars of the establishment must censor their efforts.
     
  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I too would love some reference point, some link, as to those tests. Martin says no animal tests, Bersenson says only rat tests. Many other dissenters say no animal tests.
     
  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I've been doing this long enough that I very much CAN predict the reaction of some posters to information that threatens their world view. The dissonant have a certain way about them in their undying defense of false narratives.
     
  13. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, go to the sites of groups with a vested interest in the widespread use of the shots. Good advice Mr. Death.

    As I just said, those posting in undying defense of pharma and official narratives have a certain way about them. You show it nicely.

    Ask pharma and its agents whether or not you should take one of their dangerous experimental drugs. :roflol:
     
  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-r...ontech-announce-data-preclinical-studies-mrna

    We’ve been playing around with DNA and mRNA technology for years. In my world we had an equine West Nile Virus vaccine based on the DNA model for a while before a more shelf stable conventional version was approved. The DNA version was safe and effective.

    Probably the best evidence mRNA technology is safe for placentas and does not interfere with reproduction is this study of Moderna Zika Virus vaccine in mice.
    https://investors.modernatx.com/new...-cell-demonstrates-modernas-zika-mrna-vaccine

    Of course the Zika does not have the same antigen (spike protein) as SARS-CoV-2, but we have no evidence of natural infection or vaccine induced antibody interactions with placental proteins.

    I will gladly look over this rat study but I have not seen it. Do you have a link?
     
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  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    No I don't. It was Berenson's claim.

    I'm skeptical of Pfizer's claims. They've pleaded guilty to criminal charges regarding vaccines and drugs before. I read Pfizer's report you offered, but I'm still skeptical. Too many other factors contribute to the overall picture for me to buy into Pfizer's claims. Yes, I'm cynical as hell, no doubt.

    I do not trust corporations pushing a dangerous experimental gene-editing product to protect against a virus with a 99% survival rate.

    Looking at the Big Picture during these last 18 months, it is painfully obvious that Plandemic is the best possible description of what we've been through.

    Reiner Fuellmich explains it best, and David Martin has gathered and analyzed the facts and evidence.
     
  16. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    "uh huh" isn't an argument.

    I've already provided reasoning for why they are wrong. You choose to ignore it and keep repeating "uh huh". That's your issue, not mine.

    I don't have to cite ANY peer reviewed studies. Peer reviewed studies aren't God, and if I were to cite opposing peer reviewed studies, you'd just say that "those studies aren't as 'holy' as MY studies".

    I've already provided reasoning for why your position is horse manure.
     
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  17. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    I agree. Which is why I provided you with over 10 peer reviewed studies proving you were wrong.
    why on earth do you believe that you, a lay person with zero scientific understanding, somehow debunked numerous peer reviewed studies? Do you honestly not see how silly a claim that is?
    I proved your claims wrong, with evidence and citations. You said "nuh uh" as a rebuttal. You remain refuted until you can provide evidence.
    I accept your concession. Thank you for admitting that masks help stop the spread of the flu and covid, as the numerous studies I've shown you have proven.
     
  18. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Eleauthra to date you have never provided a site, any evidence that links miscarriages to a Covid 19 vaccine. All you have been asked to do is provide one. Instead you deflect with comments such as the above. You provide no counter evidence you simply make an accusation the report you referred to is controlled by pharmaceutical companies and you provide no proof of that control.

    As such Eleuthra you have simply revealed yourself to have no evidence to back up your allegations and posts and quite frankly, its clear and you have lost any credibility with anyone on this thread, even people like me who do agree there are serious concerns with all vaccines that must be reviewed.

    What we do not ask for or need are fear mongers, i.e., people who speak of conspiracies and make allegations and can not provide a shred of evidence to back up what they say.

    Eleauthra anytime you want to provide evidence, I would be the first to consider it. I won't hold my breath and let others deal with your unsubstantiated allegations.
     
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  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Eleuthra claiming you can predict the "reaction to some posters to information that threatens their world" as you are well aware is illogical and in the context you use it nonsensical. What you in fact have stated is that if someone asks youfor proof of a direct cause and effect link between Covid 19 vaccines and miscarriages, you believe you know their opinions, thoughts, Lord knows what else you presume. You also manifest a belief that any potential opinion (because you have not heard any you just assume you will hear them) that does not agree with your allegations threatens their world view which again shows you assume what others think and what their motives are.

    All of that Eleuthra is illogical. Your view that Covid 19 vaccines cause miscarriages does not threat my world view, nor does it threaten anything else associated with me. I would imagine however, if I was a woman who was pregnant or thinking of becoming pregnant comments such as yours might be considered fear inducing or fear mongering or threatening to their personal concerns as to the health of their unborn.

    For that reason I find your comments irresponsible. You could be inducing fear in some (although I probably give you far too much credit) but no sorry Eleuthra not me. I just find your allegations unsubstantiated and when I have asked you for evidence you have deflected with name calling and stereotyping of myself and others and projecting opinions on us that come from you not us.

    So in that sense you are not threatening, just annoying to me. That said, when I discuss this issue, unlike you I do not assume you are a threat to anyone or that anyone who disagrees with me is threatening. Nope. Not over an issue like this. Of course not. That would be illogical. I am not pregnant. I am a male. What I do not do and wish you would not is make allegations you can not back up with evidence.

    Its not threatening, its silly.
     
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  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Your comments are illogical. None of the 5 women you refer to has provided any evidence that miscarriages are caused by Covid 19 vaccines. You have never provided any evidence from anyone providing evidence of a cause and effect between miscarriages and Covid 19 vaccines.

    Even if you do provide subjective opinions that like yours repeat your assumptions they remain just that, unsubstantiated assumptions until you can prove them with evidence. You are well aware of that fact.

    In fact I am not sure why some who at one point wrote very rational discourses on this forum is now reverting to name calling, stereotyping, subjective opining posed as evidence.

    What's happened Eleauthra you have reverted to such exercise? I for one do not understand it because I never came on this thread to dispute what you said, I came on it to ask for your evidence and you have repeatedly refused to provide any.

    You have done that with quite a few people who like me are willing to consider any data but you haven't provided any let alone data that provides cause and effect. The only thingyou have done is make illogical inferences.
     
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  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t trust anyone either. That’s why I base my decisions on the best empirical evidence I can find from multiple sources—not only print, audio or video, but as much as possible in physical format I can observe myself. And I make sure that evidence is based on accurate interpretation of what we know about science previous to the evidence in question. For example, the claim mRNA viruses alter your DNA is not believable to those who understand mechanisms of cell transport systems and other aspects of cell physiology. That claim is only believed by those who do not have the foundation in biological sciences to know better.

    We have to remember the vast majority of people are trained through their “education“ to accept information from certain authorities without question. They are also trained to NOT explore or question beyond the information they are told. There isn’t any curiosity to find out the “why” or the “how” of things. In many cases they are trained to believe it’s dangerous to think for themselves—someone smarter or better educated or who has won an election must be looked to for guidance.

    This results in a population that can be easily convinced of an almost endless list of things that are not true or are only partly true.

    Yes, there are many things we’ve been lied to about during this pandemic. Almost everyone has some agenda so there is misinformation almost everywhere. As free thinking Americans it’s our job to figure out what is valid and what isn’t. We simply can not look to journalists, politicians, or even “science” for information beyond scrutiny. It must all be analyzed critically if one desires to get anywhere near “truth”.
     
  22. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    For the last 40 years of my life, I have made it a practice to not believe a word uttered by known liars.

    More, I fully embrace the wisdom of James Madison: in truth, all men holding power OUGHT to be mistrusted.

    In this Covid fiasco, the dissenters are censored for a reason. They present the truth in this time of universal deception.
     
  23. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with a caveat. Most effective lies are mixed in with some measure of truth. Sometimes a big helping of truth which makes the lie easy to swallow for most people.
    Absolutely.
    I’m opposed to censorship of truth and lies. It’s my responsibility to ascertain which is which. Censors are usually either ignorant or disingenuous. Sometimes both. It’s a recipe for disaster.
     
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  24. dgrichards

    dgrichards Well-Known Member

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    Idiocy! Of course me wearing a mask does little if anything to protect me. If I am infected it protects those around me Your refusal to wear a mask potentially puts those around you, friends, co-workers, family at risk. Way to go, Bubba!
     
  25. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    At this stage, a mask does not protect me from you. I'm vaccinated. Thanks.
     

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