The last standing racist and segregation policy in the US has come to an end.

Harvard was using a combination of grades and standardized testing to give a qualification score based on academic capabilities.

What they found was that an Asian American in the 40th percentile of their academic index had virtually no chance of being admitted. However, a Black applicant with that same score was most likely going to be admitted. The differences are glaring.

Part of how this differentiation comes into play is that they rate people based on their stereotypes. For example, they believe that Asian students are less "likable" than Black students, so they severely handicap their chances based on these racist personality assessments that they apply across the board to races. When you effectively dismiss someone's eligibility because you dislike the people of that race, you are engaging in racism. And when an institution is doing it, we call it institutionalized racism. Please explain why you support and defend this overt racist practice of effectively issuing demerits to Asians because you believe their race is less likable. Objectively speaking, this is obvious racism. And, I'm genuinely curious why people support it.

 

My position is that Harvard is one of the top schools in the world.

Having the government dictate changes to that institution is something that must be opposed strongly.

Look where we are going. We have the FL government determining what may be taught and we have the USSC deciding who may be admitted.

Russia would be proud.

 

You're not making sense.

Harvard (and every other significant educational institution) believes that having a diverse student body is important to providing a quality education.

Yet YOU are WHINING about Asians at Harvard when they make up 30% of the freshman class!!!

 

Harvard, gave each student a personality score that included things like likability & kindness. They routinely ranked Asians to have the worst personalities as far as positive traits go which is how they were able to reduce the value of their applications despite having the highest academic scores. When you're supporting overt racism you should probably look into what you're supporting before trying your hardest to rationalize it away.

Harvard had to give over their internal materials in response to the lawsuit. The only person not making sense here is the person supporting racism against Asian Americans because they believe Asians have a monoculture and shouldn't be admitted into schools based on their merit.

Sorry I'm "whining" about the racism you're supporting. I guess you chalk me up there with other Civil Rights leaders who wanted to end racial discrimination. They must have really annoyed you too!

Also, Harvard was unable to quantify what impact their perception of a "diverse" student body had, which was required by prior Court cases that allowed temporary and limited racial discrimination. In this instance, it's not what they believe; it's what they can prove. Otherwise, it's just blind racism... something the supporters of these policies remind me of when they don't understand the basics of the case, evidence, and legal precedent.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-asian-enrollment-applicants.html

 

So are you saying that Harvard should be exempt from the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

I agree that Harvard is one of the world's top schools, but I never thought that because it was violating the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act. Do you think that Harvard cannot be a top school if it adheres to the law?

 

This is not the only assault on education being led by the right wing today.

I don't believe that each such assault is going to cause a catastrophe. In fact, Harvard has staved off attacks on AA repeatedly, and I don't believe this latest attack is going to be any different.

BUT, the right wing knows full well that education is liberal. And, I do NOT believe that the assaults from the court, from state governors and legislators, and from other sources are anywhere near ending. In fact, we're seeing the forces against education enlisting citizens to multiply their assaults by the sheer number of the uneducated in the populace.

Pretending that these assaults are irrelevant to the success of education is ridiculous. It's becoming hard to find people even willing to see education as a career choice. It's perhaps the ONLY profession requiring an advanced degree where the professional is considered to not have a valid opinion about their profession.

Plus, one might wonder about the causes of the decrease in numbers of those choosing to attend college and the numbers of kids who simply disappeared from schools since COVID.

Is America moving away from education or toward education?

What is America doing about it's racism/poverty problem?

 

Does it make you feel better to support racism if you believe it is somehow keeping the conservative boogieman out of education? Strange justification, but at least it's something new and a sign that you're giving up on the prior explanations to support racism. This excuse doesn't work either though... by the way.

 

OK well you just totally dodged that question.

I've been dealing with that quite a bit the past few days.

 

If you disagree with what I said, then state your objection.

 

My objection is that has nothing to do with, or address, my comment:



The reason why you guys can't seem to answer a straight question on this topic is because in reality, you know that affirmative action IS racial discrimination, but you can't accept that it describes your position, although it does.

In University admissions, it's a zero sum game. If one person is accepted, because of an affirmative racial check box, another prospective student is losing a slot, due to a racial check box; racial discrimination in other words.

The overt CRT antiracists have no problem with this math; they are clear that they want racial discrimination to benefit some and to hurt others. Traditional old time liberals have trouble with this sort of overt racism, which is why you went on an irrelevant rant about the right wing as an enemy of education. You are not yet ready to actually defend racism.

However the logic of your position is that ultimately, that's what you'll have to do. I would just prefer you go ahead and get there instead of this hemming and hawing.

 

The old, "I'm not racist, I'm one of the good guys! I want racial discrimination because it helps one race, not because it hurts another!' Okay, your position is still racist. Racism is evil even if you have good intentions. Most racists believe they are good people helping society.

 

Let's put your racist position into the real world.

Are you willing to go into an elementary school and crush the dreams of the Asian kids by telling them that it doesn't matter how hard they work on their academics because any Black kid who literally does half as well as they do should have their spot at their dream college? And, if they want a shot at a mediocre college, they must work twice as hard as someone from another race, or they'll be going to community college?

This is what you're advocating for in the name of racial "justice." F the Asian kids at all costs. Their "kind" do well enough so they should have their opportunities taken from them. It's easy to be racist when you're speaking in broad generalities. People who engage in racial scapegoating always rationalize their mentality by applying it to the whole. It's okay to be racist to individual Asians because Asians as a whole work harder and do better so you can be racist towards the individuals with no remorse. Quite frankly, it's a pathetic and evil mentality. Oh, and it's illegal. Sorry not sorry. Perhaps you can find other institutions to turn against Asians next and hope it gets tied up in the courts for a long time so it will continue unchecked for a while.

Maybe we can redline their mortgages for a couple decades in favor of other minorities?

 

What Harvard has done clearly works to decrease racism in the USA as they have described. Their view that students get a better education when they establish diversity in their classes is not something you can just ignore.

Claiming Harvard doesn't know what they're talking about isn't a legitimate approach. They have LONG proven their expertise in creating a quality education.

That better education is experienced by all those admitted. Harvard is creating a better education for those wealthy white legacy admits.

Beyond that, if you have OTHER ways of working toward reducing discrimination in our society, please point it out.

Frankly, I really don't see many of these other ways, and the seriousness of the problem is crystal clear.

 

Sorry dude, what you are claiming is flat out LAUGHABLE.

If you want to discuss this topic, you're going to have to try to be serious.

 

Racism is a serious subject. Thinking it's "laughable" to look at the impact of your racist generalities on the individual is pathetic.

 

Well to handle last comments first, in order to deal with racial discrimination, first, stop racially discriminating. I realize that's a tough hurdle, but at some point, you are going to have to swallow that medicine.

Secondly, you have no idea if "Harvard has done clearly works to decrease racism in the USA." To me, that sounds absurd on it's face, but you wrote it so I guess you take that seriously. Harvard is free to provide studies showing that students actually get a better education if there is diversity, but they didn't bother to defend that in court and I doubt you'll find any reproducible studies that show that. Diversity may be great, but no one knows exactly what that means. What is the right mix of ethnicities for the school? For a class? Does the subject matter matter? Does "diversity" help education just as much in mechanical engineering as it does in a Chinese language class?

Just a reminder that affirmative action wasn't started for "diversity." It was started to make sure institutions, like Harvard, were not trying to keep blacks and minorities out. I think at this point in history, we can all agree that the Harvard admissions is not filled with klansmen trying to keep blacks out?

 

You need to think through what you want to say and verify what you are claiming.

Changing Harvard's admissions program is going to make ZERO progress in reducing racism in the USA today.

Yes, discussing problems in a university class absolutely brings in the experience and knowledge of the students present. That is a key reason, maybe THE reason that diversity is important. Harvard points out that diversity is NEEDED to create a quality education. A full range of perspective and experience is seriously important.

Students are NOT admitted based on what their major will be. Typically, majors are established at the end of the second year.

 

Considering their admissions process includes giving down Asian applicants for not being as “likable” or “kind” compared to other races, Harvard’s admission process is racist. And removing the racial discrimination in the institution will reduce racism at least in their school. Likewise, preventing all universities from being overtly racist in admissions reduces racism.

However, you seem wholly unaware that @Lil Mike was responding to your statement implying that Harvard’s process “reduces discrimination in our society.” This is a statement you have failed to support. It’s also unsupportable based on the evidence presented in court. I don’t believe Harvard has made this claim, so I’m not sure why you brought it up. In fact, Harvard did an internal investigation into its admissions processes and came to the conclusion that it was racially biased against a minority group and they didn’t care to fix it.

In the rare exceptions when the courts have allowed racial discrimination against the 14th Amendment and Civil Rights Act it was allowed ONLY if the outcome was quantifiable and measurable for a specific benefit allowed by the court. Harvard was asked if they could provide data to support an increased quality of education based on racial discrimination and they were unable to do so. I don’t recall Harvard or UNC even trying to support this requirement when directly asked by the court.

Your response to @Lil Mike is yet ANOTHER confused response of goal shifting and conveniently FORGETTING the arguments you previously made when they were called out directly. You just keep shifting around trying to find a reason to support racism when your arguments keep getting shut down with facts and logic. The plain reality seems to be that you prefer racism in college admissions, even if it’s illegal because you feel this type of racism is good for society. You should just be honest with yourself rather than contradicting yourself and playing possum when you can’t substantiate your claims. It doesn’t matter if Harvard believes racial discrimination is a good thing for their university. The olive branch that has been extended to bypass the 14th amendment comes with strict requirements that Harvard and UNC have not attempted to meet. You should also consider that there were people who thought redlining was good for neighborhoods. They had a whole host of reasons why it was better: more reliable mortgages, lower crime, etc. You can make up a million excuses to be racist if you don’t have to support them with evidence and facts. And, even if a racist can find a factual example they’re still a racist and racism is evil.

 

Cite please.

And, I answered the other poster.

 

It's been provided for you twice already. The game is getting old.

 

Totally amazing how a side which claims they are against race based discrimination are actually all for race based discrimination and even want the Supreme Court of the United States to rule that race based discrimination should be legal.

 

So the short of it is, in order to reduce racism, you absolutely MUST have racial discrimination.

OK you are firmly in the Ibram X Kendi camp.



Frankly, I wasn't sure you would go there, since a lot of old, old-timey liberals have a view that racial discrimination is bad, but you've clearly gotten past that.

 

Bold: Something that has been done at least since the U.S. Department of Education was made. And each state has its equivalent. Interesting how I've never heard you complain about ANY of those government departments until FL started preventing schools from teaching leftist ideologies.

Red: You mean like it did in Brown Vs Board of Education? LINK: Brown v. Board of Education: Summary, Ruling & Impact | HISTORY Do you think that Brown v. Board of Education should have been "opposed strongly" also? Personally, I'm happy the USSC ended racist policies in Brown v Board of Education....and ended Harvard in doing the same thing. (you do know that Harvard refused to accept blacks at one point in their history and Brown vs Board of Education put a stop to that...right?)

 

Another uninformed right winger who doesn't understand how AA works. Hint same grades/test scores as the whites and Asians

 

Sure ignore my posit that blacks have only had full rights since I've been born (1961) and yet you want them to feel the same as others withthe 'anerican experience" after over 400 years of not being equal?? lol

GOP/CONServatives love them some minorities right?

Stacking the deck: How the GOP works to suppress minority voting

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/09/2...ow-the-gop-works-to-suppress-minority-voting/

Republican Voter Suppression Efforts Are Targeting Minorities, Journalist Says

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/23/6597...orts-are-targeting-minorities-journalist-says


The Impact of Voter Suppression on Communities of Color
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color