For those who think the election doubters have no grounds-

Someone can file suit. It wouldn't make it past the first step in the process.

Trump, currently, is under indictment on 31 criminal charges due to advice he took from Judicial Watch.

 

We've become so used to the left inverting everything. It's a form of compulsive denial, like little kids who have yet to learn the value of stepping up to the plate and earrning respect for their honor. It's become a habit- done even when the truth would serve them better. I no longer expect any degree of honesty from the democrats or their supporters.

Like the trend right now.... Polls show Trump would beat all other candidates, so the left is trying to be sure he can't be a candidate. Banana republic politics, from American democrats.
It brings shame to us all- Except the people who do it. You have to have some respect for yourself and your values before you can feel shame for violating them.

I can't imagine anyone wanting a nation where self-respect is so low they are immune to shame- but the left is doubling down on that objective.
Surely, you want more for your country and your family than that.

 

The right is backing a man with 4 indictments on 91 charges and you think the LEFT has no "self respect"? That's a joke, right?
Surely you want more for your country and your family than a man like Trump. A man who has cheated on ALL his wives. A man who has been judged to be a fraud, ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASSION.
Anyone who supports Trump or even supports someone who supports Trump, has zero room to talk about someone else's lack of self respect.

 

The trick to using law to break law is to have people in law enforcement on your payroll or mentally in your pocket.
You're watching a political weapon in use here, a tool of their war- not a function of justice. The left has abandoned justice as a principal value because they can't win if they follow it. Character issue.
They can't beat the message, so they attack the messenger- because they have nothing else to fight with, and lack the self-respect and integrity to act with honor.
The left is terrified of Donald Trump... but actually, his message. IF they were honorable people, they would let the people honestly decide, and there wouldn't be any effort to distort that in any way.
Not a chance they will allow that voluntarily.

You can tell yourself those indictments are legit, but you will not convince me- and I doubt you can convince yourself. You know better.

 

This post is just you refusing to accept even the POSSIBILTY that Trump is a criminal.
Again, this is a man who has skated along the line (and, in many cases, has crossed that line) between legal and illegal. And more than that has FLOUTED his own very unethical behavior.
And yet, somehow, THIS TIME, he is being persecuted...not prosecuted.

If Trump supporters were honorable people.....well...they wouldn't be Trump supporters.

Of course I will never be able to convince you...because you fail to take the advice that is in your own signature.

It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows. (Epictetus)

 

And ALL of those indictments and charges have been produced by his political enemies.....
For the express purpose of making you think that he is not qualified to be on the ballot with them. They need to be sure- that the people don't have the option to not chose them.

Having trouble seeing that? Unwilling to ask yourself why this intense focus with charges on the extreme fringe of the law are being pushed, all by democratic influences?
Can't see the forest for the trees?

 

Your hyper-partisan paranoia in denial of the fifty states' certified election results and the integrity of America's justice system is unfortunate,

The Cry Baby Loser's incessant bleating because he lost in no way places him above the law, and subject to the will of the People.

The safe and secure election is not being challenged in any legal or legislative venue anywhere in the land, not even by the most fanatical Trump bum kisser, and the 91 felony count based upon impartial grand juries' assessments of substantive evidence and the sworn testimony of dozens of Republican witnesses have not been discredited, despite all the whining.

Your contempt for American institutions that many less fortunate nations envy appears to be predicated upon a perverted adoration.

​

 

And the band plays the same old song on and on...and on....and on....and on...and on spreading bullshit through sheer force of repetition.

I wonder if Trump wins if that will be the end of the waaambulance posts about fake stolen election conspiracies.

 

So ANY accusation from a "political enemy" can just be written off as politically motivated?
Does that include all the BS about the "Biden Crime Family"?

BTW, the charges against Trump are NOT "the extreme fringe of the law"

 

Actually, most of us can be "criminals". The laws have become so voluminous, so incomprehensible, the nobody can be aware of them all or follow them all.
Several experts have told us that the average person violates several laws everyday. Not intentionally, but because they have become impossible to know them all, let alone follow.
This condition gives prosecutors the ability to target a person, then find a law to prosecute them with. Nobody is out of reach, including you and I.

IF you become a person they wish to target, they can. It doesn't have to be the result of violating the law you are charged with, but of having those with the power of doing that deciding to target you.
We have people in federal prison today, because they imported lobster into the US from Honduras that came in plastic boxes instead of wooden ones. Now- the US has no law against that, but Honduras does. And though Honduras has long since quit enforcing that law (originally intended to protect their lumber industry) but the US does have a law that says a US Citizen can be prosecuted for violating another nation's law. I've not seen information on the motive behind such prosecutions, and it will probably never be revealed- but it's been used.

If you had a cadre of lawyers following you around every day and advising you- you still could not make it impossible to charge you. In the case of politics like this, the primary value is the damage to the perception of the person targeted. That is achieved just by making the charge. If the person were found not guilty, the damage to their image has already been done. Conviction would increase it- but acquittal does not erase it.

The lawsuits over Trump's property evaluations on loan applications for example. All terms of the agreements were complied with, no complaints from the parties involved at all.... and the essence of the allegations are that the estimates of value were not accurate, despite the document stating they should not be used as anything but estimates and the lenders should rely on their own evaluations.
Incredible that such allegations wouldn't be laughed at and dismissed immediately- but that's where conspiracy comes in, needing more than just a prosecutor to keep it afloat.

I don't know about you, but I'd like my government to uphold a much higher moral standard than that. That is a character issue. You have to embrace it voluntarily.

What we think must remain open to modification by new truth- and closed to lies and deception. If you can't tell the difference, or won't, then the words of Epictetus will apply.

 

This is the fall back position of the Trump supporters. That the NY civil case is over a difference of opinion on the valuation of Trump assets.

This is a lie.

It is not about a "difference of opinion". It is about fraud. Definable, provable (and PROVEN) fraud. There may be a "fudge factor" when doing valuation on assets but in the case of Trump it is far beyond any "fudge factor". Listing his penthouse as three times larger than it actually is, is not a "difference of opinion". Valuating rent controlled buildings as if they were not rent controlled is not a "fudge factor". Failing to account for easements on properties where you have taken the tax break for such easements is not "wiggle room". Trump has admitted to adding "brand value" on some assets despite the very clear instruction in the "Generally Accepted Accounting Principals" that all financial statements are supposed to follow not to do so.

These are not "estimation errors". These are examples of FRAUD. And not only are they examples of fraud, the fact that Trump and his organization violated these rules is now a matter of law. He has been adjudicated of fraud. And this is just the civil case.

The documents case in Florida?

Trump had the documents
Trump was not authorized to have the documents
Trump refused to return the documents.

That's all she wrote folks. 31 violations of 18 USC 793(e). There is no possible defense. But because, in this country, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty Trump is, for now, technically innocent. But I guarantee you, he will be found guilty. As long as there are no pardons or Trump himself winning the election and shutting down the prosecution.

Of course you are going to deflect with "But what about Biden" or "Trump declassified the documents" or some other such BS. All of which has been debunked.

 

Yes- they are; in that they would not be being used if Trump were not their political enemy. That makes their use an abuse of the purpose of law, and the pursuit of justice.

Such accusations don't have to be politically motivated, but unfortunately- usually are. That's the defacto rules of today's politics, because we fail to enforce our own ethics principles.
In high office like Congress for example. Take just two rules- the Oath of Office, and the Fiduciary Duty of Office.

Every member is sworn to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Fiduciary duty says -
* All actions and decisions must be made in the best interests of the people you represent.
* All conduct in regard to your position shall be honest.
* Everything you do in the position shall be transparent to those you represent.

Know any politician who keeps that obligation; and meets those requirements?

Those rules aren't enforced, so there are no rules. In the absence of rules, whatever you can get by with, the lowest common denominator becomes the defacto rules.
There is no hard line, no limitation. Result- Chaos.

That becomes the example to people in governance at all levels. Federal agencies, states. Like parents having no rules, and the kids following suit. Making it up as they go along.
Chaos isn't the disease- it's the symptom of the disease where character is abandoned for political expedience. Chaos can now be found nationwide, and growing- and thriving in many places.

Denial isn't the cure- it's the enabler. Calling truth BS doesn't change it, it just blinds you to it.

 

Except there is no "fiduciary duty" for politicians.

They take an oath to the Constitution...that's it.

Furthermore the three things you list as "fiduciary duty" are all subjective.
I say that putting in place mask mandates during a full blown pandemic IS in the best interests of the people you represent. I'm sure you would disagree.
Keeping things transparent? Trump routinely had large blocks of time in his official schedule marked "executive time". No transparency. He met with Putin and refused to allow staff or any note takers in on the meetings.

 

The laws Trump has been INDICTED on are used ALL. THE. TIME.

They are used against people not named Trump. They are used against people regardless of political party.

Your problem is that because Trump is "your guy" you see any legitimate attempt to hold him accountable as a "political attack".

 

None so blind as those who see only what they want.

 

None so mute as those who cross their arms and pout and can't address the facts.

 

Hey, where is your thread about questioning the integrity of last night's Iowa caucuses? Oh, wait.....

 

Agreed.

Remove your blinders.

 

Deleted

 

That's good advice. Time to follow it and start addressing the facts.

 

FACTS

Trump had the documents
Trump was not authorized to have the documents
Trump refused to turn the documents over.

Open and shut violation of 18 USC 793(e)

Do you want to address those facts?

 

I've been doing so for years, and even now I still have Trump supporters making frivolous claims that they can't support and then pouting and stamping their feet and crying "Prove me wrong." It's pathetic.

 

Oh this is a document thread now? Interesting. Maybe you should address these facts:

 

There's plenty of reasons.

 

Arizona
Two precincts in Pima County had over 100 percent turnout for mail-in ballots,
and 40 precincts had over 97 percent returned.

The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors admitted they purged the system and
moved election data after they received a subpoena, in testimony before the U.S.
House of Representatives.