Attempted Suicide Rates More Than Double After Gender-Reassignment Surgery: Study

The only "insight" I'm talking about is with regards to your anti-medical community claims about transgenderism. Please try to keep up. The constant strawmen are getting old and moldy.

 

The country comparison is interesting. I'll have to dig more into that. But even more importantly, I'd love to hear @FAW respond to your previous observation: "It’s interesting because MTF transitioning caused suicide attempts to increase but FTM caused a small decline." FAW, if transgenderism comes from depression, then why is there this disparity?

 

I suppose if YOU were constantly vilified in society by narrow minded people over and over, you might develop some kind of mental issue — depression, anxiety. I suppose if YOU were called names that are considered slurs and beaten up for living the way you want to — YOU might develop some kind of mental issue.

There is nothing wrong with having a mental illness — it happens to lots of people, it’s part of life. Stop stigmatizing people for their suffering.

It’s people like you and others on these threads that you keep starting, that contribute to the suicides of transgenders. You probably have no idea what it’s like to be forced to live in a body you hate, being forced to conform to societies idiotic ‘norms’ and then when you finally get the guts to actually do something to be yourself, *******s denigrate, insult, put you down, beat you to a pulp with both words and fists. Are you and your transgender hating buddies proud of yourselves?

 

What strawman?

 

Nice evading! Those doctors don't know diddly about the long term effects of mutilating a body.

 

All of your comments about the causes of suicide are strawmen. There is NOTHING I've said about the causes of suicide that you can point to that you even disagree with. There's nothing I've said about suicide at all that you can point to that you even remotely disagree with. I'm talking about your anti-medical position on TRANS people in claiming that DEPRESSION is the CAUSE of TRANGENDERISM. But you can't handle that. So you are desperate to change the subject.

 

When you guys say haters and bigots, I'm assuming you're referring to the people in Sweden where the study was performed.

 

When someone is suffering from a mental illness, such as gender dysphoria (no, not the same thing as being trans), they may require medically prescribed treatment. No treatment is guaranteed. People on chemo die of cancer. People on insulin die of diabetes complications. In fact, people with severe symptoms are MORE likely to seek treatment . . . meaning they are overrepresented in the data. The people who die from these complications are more likely to have received treatment than those who have received no treatment. It is wildly irresponsible, dishonest, and hateful to claim that, in such a case, that the treatment CAUSED the death.

 

Ummmm....conseratives, especially MAGA conservatives, are constantly villified, called names, hit with slurs and publicly bashed and attacked by narrow minded people, yet I haven't heard about any abnormal increase in suicides in that group.

 

MAGA conservatives represent a large portion of the population. And they have political power. And the "hate" they receive is in RESPONSE to their own hate. They like to hit people and then play victim when they hit back. And they enjoy far more protections. There's a reason that I can't call someone a "Trumpist" on this forum, but "tranny" is allowed.

 

Most likely due to a small number included in the study which created a very wide confidence interval to arrive at the 95%.

With that being said, you need to understand what is meant by statistical significance. Typically statistical significance is achieved at 95%. What this means in statistical sampling is that if you repeat this study 20 times, you will have one result out of those 20 (5%) that will fall out of the stated outcome. This is what is known as a statistical outlier. It happens 5% of the time.

Since this is a cohort retrospective analysis, you are looking at a lot of different outcome measures. Out of each of those measures, you would expect a statistical outlier 1 out of 20 times. To look at an analysis such as this and draw any hard conclusions because out of more than 20 outcome measures one of them falls out of what would be expected by the rest of the data. Thus the logical conclusion would be that it is a statistical outlier.

With that being said, this is not a proven fact, so it is important to reference other studies as well. Statistical outliers happen all the time, and with this being a retrospective analysis, its true value as a study is limited in terms of drawing hard and fast conclusions. If you are asking my opinion based on my clinical data experience, I would say that all similar studies from both sides of the spectrum are far from being gold standard reliable studies.

It is clear that trangenders have very high rates of suicide, and this applies to transgenders that do get an operation as well as those that do not. People pushing an agenda will choose either the pre op group and compare to a normal cohort of people, or a post op group where you compare to a normal group of people. Both of these methods will get their desired result depending upon which agenda is being pushed. If being wholly honest and non biased, My belief would be that both pre and post op trans have very high rates of suicide, which indicates that this is a highly clinically depressed patient population. I don't believe it is the operation or lack of an operation that is driving the suicide. I believe it is the clinical depression driving the high rates.

 

I see you are desperate to crank your strawmen up to 11. I didn't even talk about statistics yet. And you are putting your double standard on blast. You have NO statistical evidence for your transphobic position. None. Yet you demand it from others.

 

Mental illness or perfectly normal?

 

All of my comments huh?

Sort of difficult to refute what I don't know what you are talking about.

How convenient for you (sarcasm)

I suspect you don't truly understand what exactly constitutes a strawman because that description does not apply to anything I have said on the subject. if you want to point out something specific and what I was referring to I will be happy to point out your error. If you are just going to stick with pointing to nothing specific and explaining why you think it is such, there is not much to say. It is just a hollow accusation at that point. If you got the goods as you seem to think, by all means bust them out.

 

Your desperation to evade the topic of your own thread is remarkable.

 

Now I KNOW you do not understand what constitutes a strawman.

You asked why there is a disparity between groups, and I answered by pointing to statistics. That is not a strawman in any way. You didn't need to mention statistics for me to answer with statistics. You asked my why, and my answer was statistics. A strawman is when one argues against a point that was not raised. That is not what I did. I answered your question directly.

This doesn't not qualify as a strawman in any manner, shape, or form. I am shocked at just how many regulars in this room do not understand the concept of a strawman argument and they misuse the term constantly. This is a shining example of such.

 

All of your comments? No. All of your comments ABOUT a particular subject. Please learn what a preposition is. You either have never encountered the concept of a preposition or you are leveling up your strawman game.

It ain't rocket surgery, but I will try to dumb it down.

I will try to use more elementary language. I responded to your claims about depression being the cause of transgenderism, pointing out that the medical community disagrees with you. You tried changed the subject to what the medical community says about the causes of suicide. Nothing you stated actually address what I said. At all. Not even remotely.

Something specific you were referring to: Your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. That's what I'm talking about. When you are done pretending that you are incapable of understanding this concept, I guess we can talk about it. But that assumes you will stop pretending. I won't be holding my breath for that.

I've had to do this before when people pretend to be unable to read my posts, and I guess I have to do it again. I will restate my position a dozen times to see if you are willing and able to understand it:

I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression.

 

By all of my comments I did mean regarding this particular subject. I would have thought that goes without saying. What do yo think I am accusing you of referring to comments other than our conversation?

Strange.

Feigned condescension does nothing to bolster your position.

You are confused.

You jumped into MY conversation with someone else. Now you are trying to act as if I jumped into YOUR conversation and changed the subject? LOL....sorry. That is silly.

Ok, transgenderism is caused by depression ( I also added the words "I believe that trangerism causes depression), and you are alleging that is a strawman argument. In order for it to be so, I would have to be arguing against a point that was not raised. In order to prove this to be a strawman, you need to provide what I was responding to and explain how it is arguing against a point that was not raised.

If you were to try to do so, you would find that I was responding directly to another poster that was claiming that society causes the depression, hence arguing that I believe that depression causes trangenderism is not a strawman in any way.

What about this could you possibly find so confusing? Yeesh.

Yes....see above.

It is not that I could not read your post, it was that it did not make any sense when you were trying to label it a strawman argument.

Now all you need to do is to post the argument I was responding to and show how my retort was not responding to what was said. ( you can repeat it 15 times again if you like)

Your assertion that this started with you and I is wrong. I was responding to another poster and their argument, not yours.

 

15 times? I guess I shall.

I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.
I'm challenging your claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. Your attempts to avoid this by inventing other claims are strawman arguments.

 

LOL, you are STILL confused.

My statement was "Yes....see above. Now all you need to do is to post the argument I was responding to and show how my retort was not responding to what was said. ( you can repeat it 15 times again if you like)"

Somehow you keep missing the SHOW HOW MY RETORT WAS NOT RESPONDING TO WHAT WAS SAID part of the equation. You need the argument I was referring to. This should not be this difficult.

You can lead a horse to water, but indeed you CANNOT make him drink.

 

I see you are still working on the whole reading thing. I know you have come around to owning your anti-medical viewpoint on trans people. I'm saying that, when you try to make it about something else when "responding" to my posts criticizing this position of yours, that's the strawman. Can you still not understand?

 

I see you still don't understand that in order to prove a strawman argument you need to point out what argument I was replying to and how my response was arguing aginst something else.

This obviously does not apply in this situation and you are seemingly not intellectually honest enough to acknowledge that when you look back at that conversation I was indeed responding directly to that argument.

I will do it for you...

The other person asked in post 13 "What is it that you think causes so much inner turmoil in transgender people? "

...and my response in post 14 was "I believe that clinical depression is at the very heart of transgenderism. "

LOL...I'm sorry, that could not possibly be FURTHER from being a strawman argument. I 100% directly answered her question. Answering her question is not an example of me arguing against a point that was not raised.

Yeesh. This is silly. It is preposterous. You do not have any semblance of a leg to stand on. All of your bluster above posting the same thing over and over and over and then acting like I cannot read, and the truth is, there is no way to possibly argue that the above is a strawman argument as you are attempting to do. You are accomplishing nothing other than to make yourself look foolish.

Stop pushing this childish nonsense. At this point you are little more than a troll.

 

I see you are still pretending you can't read. I responded to your claim that depression is the cause transgenderism. Your response was to talk about something else instead and mischaracterize my position while ignoring my actual criticism. Your claim which I was addressing as the claim that transgenderism is caused by depression. The strawman: everything you said in "response" to this that doesn't address the aforementioned and tries to make it something else instead. I look forward to your next attempt to pretend you can't understand this.

 

My point has long since been made.

It is time to move on.

 

Yes. Let's move on from the pathetic pseudoscience that you are promoting about trans people. I wish others would follow your example and put an end to the unhinged transphobia.