Part 19 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Thank you for your reply.

He told you, too. Have you not read John 1:1? How about any of
the other times Jesus claimed to be God?

Where am I living in denial? This another one of your naked claims that you
haven't provided any evidence. Please, for the record, provide evidence
of how I'm living in denial.

No they aren't. Deeds, actions and way of life happens after being saved.
You've yet to provide any evidence that Jesus preaches Salvation by works.
You've provided links but your links succinctly refute what you've been saying.

 

how do you justify (to yourself) the good deeds, actions, and way of life in those who are free of religion?

and how do you justify (to yourself) worshipping a god who cares more about that worship than it does about people being good (see 'faith alone').

 

For someone who doesn't like man made words, you sure put a lot of stock in those man made words.

 

I justify nothing.

God says that good works are useless as far as Salvation is
concerned. This should clear up everything. John 3:16-17.
I suggest reading the entire chapter so you can see the context.

Once again, I don't justify anything. I don't need to. God has made the
process very clear and very easy.

Being good doesn't guarantee entrance into Heaven. Man cannot enter
Heaven unless he's perfect. Man can't be perfect. Never ever unless
he's been born of God. Only Jesus was born of God. Jesus is also God.

God made the process far more simple than works, that can't possibly
get anyone into Heaven.

Read this and use the Scripture. It will nullify any objections that
so-called Christians have imposed upon you.

GRACE
1. Heaven is a free gift. Romans 6:23
2. It's not earned or deserved. Ephesians 2:8-9

MAN
1. Man is a sinner Romans 3:23
2. Man cannot save himself. Matthew 5:48

GOD
1. Is merciful - therefore doesn't want to punish us (1John 4:8 and Jer 31:3)
2. is just - therefore must punish sin (Exodus 34:7 and Ezekal 18:4)

CHRIST
1. Who He is - the infinite God-Man (John 1:1 &14)
2. What He did - He died on the cross and rose from dead to pay the penalty
for our sins and to purchase a place in heaven for us (Isaiah 53:6)

FAITH
1. What it is not - Mere intellectual assent Mere temporal faith (James 2:19)
2. What it is - trusting in Jesus Christ alone for eternal life (Acts 16:31)

It's that simple. PM me if you have some honest questions. I'll be glad to answer them
as I just did.

 

By the same as the opinions you want to follow.

 

Jesus never claims to be god. That is a falsehood on your part.

 

And yours. It's a two way street. Or do you disagree?

 

Absolutely not. I agree. I'm no longer so naive to think I have it right or have been told the right way. That to me is now ludicrous.
And to the poster I responded to, does not believe in man's written word, the bible. The poster doesn't believe jesus is god. And I agree with that.

 

when you say you justify nothing, does this mean you don't actually think about these things, at all?

it's never occurred to you that if we were all good, no matter what flavour of spook we subscribe or don't subscribe to, the paradise that theists claim would ensue if we all just believed in baby jesus, would exist DESPITE the multitude of gods and god claims. while you might respond with "but the fact we don't do that now is evidence of our need for god's intervention", I suggest you think about it on the smaller scale - look at groups or societies where social 'goodness' is a reality. if even a few can do it without gods, that immediately puts the lie to claims god is necessary. you surely must have thought of this at some point?

secondly, if your aim as a Christian is to please god by reducing sin, why is reduction in sin not adequate? why isn't the reduction in sin the only thing which matters? why is pleasing the 'ego' of a creator being MORE important than the way we conduct ourselves here, if the way we conduct ourselves here is asserted to be of such great importance to god?. we read constant appeals to morality, and to right behaviour etc, yet it's all cancelled out by the idea that it doesn't actually matter. you, being an intelligent person, must have considered this failure in the premise. I would like to know how you worked your way around it.

 

God justifies. I don't.

I don't know what you mean by spook. I certainly don't believe in one.

At any rate, Jesus saves and all we need to do is acknowledge that
fact. If you'll take the time to research the verses I gave you then you'll
have a better grasp of what I told you in the previous post.

There's no need to do so. Read what I provided for you. It will explain
everything.

I've never claimed any such thing. Neither has God. Why did you bring
that up? It's never been mentioned. Read what I posted.

Because man can't save himself. Please read what I provided for
you.

The creator's ego isn't relevant. Where did you come up with that?
Seriously? Where?

It's not important. Please read what I posted. That would be the
intelligent way to have a discussion. So far you're making assertions
that aren't Biblical and are contrived by yourself and others who won't
take the time to educate themselves. Certainly you're more intelligent
than that.

This is the first thing you've responded to that correct. Man cannot
save himself.

1. Yes, I'm quite intelligent. 5 universities and a broad scope of education.
2. I've considered it to be a failure but realized that it isn't.
3. I've worked my way around nothing because it can't be done.

Please, read the post I made and the Scripture. It will explain everything.

 

Jesus never claimed to be God.... Can you provide the scripture to back up your claim?

 

Yes He did.
John 8:58
John 10:30

And the best verse that says Jesus, the Word is God,
John 1:1

 

Post the content of those verses exactly.

 

John 1:2
He was with God in the beginning.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth

How can Jesus be God when quite clearly John states he came from God...and, how does what someone else said become something Jesus said?

 

Originally Posted by AlphaOmega
My question was ......Will I get into heaven if I do not accept god? Explain to me the part that was silly. I can always get a moderator to review the topic, then my question, then the subsequent ignoring of the question by the OP if you like.

I can answer it!

Are you ready?

Ok! Here it is;


No.


Now like everything in this old world my answer is true as it can be on the available information, but the answer is not perfect.

I will elobrate if you really want to know about it~


reva

 

Do you practice telepathy? Neither do I.. therefore, we are both stuck with a dependency on words to convey ideas. I actually enjoy using 'man made words'. I simply don't like the manner in which some people abuse the words that they elect to use.

- - - Updated - - -

And whose opinions is it that I want to follow? BTW: how do you KNOW what my wants are? Are you the mind reader?

 

Great Thanks! Now what happens to me if I don't go to heaven?

 

Not only humans and apes come from one common ancestor but all creatures they were all created by God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierolapithecus
The hypothesis that this new species was an ancestor of all modern great apes is controversial because of its location in the Iberian Peninsula, since all the existing great ape species live in either Southeast Asia or Africa, and Africa has been the location for so much of the evolution of great apes and humans. However, the Mediterranean Sea expanded and contracted frequently in the past, permitting the dispersal of life between Africa and Europe and the Pierolapithecus could have lived on both continents.

Rather than a full common ancestor, it has been suggested that the species may be ancestral to humans, chimpanzees and gorillas but not orangutans, given certain characteristics of the face.

Soon they'll discover that there is no such thing as great ape the great ape was created by a group of early white scientist mixing fiction with science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion
The Cambrian Period witnessed the most rapid and widespread diversification of life in Earth's history, known as the Cambrian explosion, in which most modern phyla first appeared.

The seemingly rapid appearance of fossils in the “Primordial Strata” was noted as early as the 1840s,[9] and in 1859 Charles Darwin discussed it as one of the main objections that could be made against the theory of evolution by natural selection.[10] The long-running puzzlement about the appearance of the Cambrian fauna, seemingly abruptly and from nowhere, centers on three key points: whether there really was a mass diversification of complex organisms over a relatively short period of time during the early Cambrian; what might have caused such rapid change; and what it would imply about the origin of animal life. Interpretation is difficult due to a limited supply of evidence, based mainly on an incomplete fossil record and chemical signatures remaining in Cambrian rocks.

Phylogenetic analysis has been used to support the view that during the Cambrian radiation metazoa evolved monophyletically from a single common ancestor: flagellated colonial protists similar to modern choanoflagellates.

It is clear that humans and apes evolved separately that is why apes today remain apes and for the last thousand of years no single ape not a single ape no matter how scientist have been trying to make it happen has not happen to change or evolved into humans while humans continue to evolved to become more and more intelligent while apes remain the same.

 

This makes no sense whatever. You don't know how intelligent apes were thousands of years ago. The fact that baby chimps can work out problems quicker and where necessary, in pairs, than human babies must prove they have something that human babies do not have at the same stage. Intelligence?

Humans don't continue to 'evolve' to become more intelligent. Intelligence is the gaining of knowledge by being taught or by experience. Wisdom is the using that knowledge rightly.

 

You just said humans evolved.

 

Problems with reading comprehension again?

I never claimed to know more about heaven than the posters I replied to. I may well know more about Christian teachings about heaven and eternity though – which is not exactly a feat in this forum, I’m afraid: It’s not as if fundamentalist clowns, who think God created the earth in 6 days, ever read Augustine either.

You may of course find it offensive that I occasionally draw attention to the fact that the naive Mickey Mouse version of Christianity you guys bicker about in this thread, ain’t the only one. But here you go: it ain’t.

So just for your information, that you may take or leave, here is what Augustine – arguably one of Christianity’s most influential theologians - thought about God and eternity:
"It is not in time that you precede times. Otherwise you would not precede all times. In the sublimity of an eternity which is always in the present, you are before all things past and transcend all things future, because they are still to come. "(Confessiones 11:16).
In other words: in traditional Christian understanding as rooted in Augustinian theology God's eternity is timeless. He'd hardly get bored, because time in eternity is so so so unbearably long.

 

It is fine that you don't want to believe that reality is real. Most of the rest of us however do not live in the tulip path in our minds 100% of the time.

 

Jesus is not the speaking voice in John 1:1.

I gave you a whole sermon where Jesus talks about works as the path to heaven.

You refuse to even address what Jesus says and this is why you are in denial. You say my links refute me but do not claim how or explain your self. This is what I mean by standing on a stump and crying out "no no no". This is a naked claim.

If you wish to give a different interpretation ... that is fine. At least then we have a discussion. You are not discussing anything ... all you are doing is restating your claim over and over again. (Your claim is refuted because I say your claim is refuted - is logical fallacy)

If you want to claim that Jesus said "deeds are a way of life that happens after being saved" then show some scripture where Jesus says this ?

Jesus does not say this in his sermon about Salvation - how to get into heaven.

What he does say is:

Jesus has just spent an entire sermon explaining what the will of the Father is. This sermon is about doing good works and living a good life according to the principles laid out in this sermon.

He talks about the law - Don't kill, don't commit adultery, help the poor, do unto others and so on.

He says it directly and not in some kind of secret code or using allegory.

Only those who do the will of the father make it into heaven. The will of the Father is to obey his commands and God's message revealed to humanity through his son Jesus.

Where is your refutation to this scripture that I have posted numerous times now. Is English not your first language or did the translators get it wrong.

If the "will of the Father" is not what Jesus has been preaching about in his sermon.. then what is it and where is the scripture to back it up from Jesus's sermon ?

 

'god' is nothing more than a figment of your imagination, so your imagination cannot create any real creatures. Sorry to tell you this.

From the Pierolapithecus article:

Since you like to cheery pick data, I notice you for got bold the "it has been suggested" left our the suggested part.

Once again, humans. orangutans, chimpanzees and gorillas ARE Great Apes. Your little folly about "Soon they'll discover" is simply a pipe dream of yours.

Once multi cellular structures form, no wonder why there was an explosion. Which by the way was done is a laboratory setting:

Multicellular Life Evolves in Laboratory

Chromosome 2 (human) is evidence that humans, chimpanzees, orangutans and gorillas all share one common ancestor and that we make up the Great Ape Family. This even held up in a court of law in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District. Creationism could not in this case. Its called Evidence, something creationism nor your imaginary friend 'god' has any of.

 

If you supposedly understand this, then why are you bring up a study that is in a CONTROLED environment? There is no natural selection in a controlled environment.

Talk about trying to convince yourself of something

You don't understand or believe me, because you are bringing up a study that was in a controlled environment where natural selection (the driving force behind Evolution) does not take place.