I gazed upon the face of GOD...

Still agree. One caveat. You seem to be implying the randomness of freedom cannot fit a scenario of pre planned outcome. Sounds crazy to us. Not so sure it's crazy on a higher level than ours.
Or to put it simply as an aid for myself. There is a "big picture", think of it as a jigsaw puzzle being assembled at all times, we humans are allowed to shape the pieces but the picture remains the same.

I also contend that the evil, heinous actions of humans are not as ugly on a higher plane. I also realize that sounds crazy, perhaps sociopathic. As a human I'm not condoning any of those acts. From my expierience those acts still fit into the picture and that picture conveys a beauty of logic not fathomable to the human brain in our state.
Hard to explain unless one has expierienced it.

 

Nope! According to you. You are now declaring that the cat in the hat exists as a murderer of innocent children. Yes That would be a shock to "Dr. Seuss" considering that Dr Seuss never made that claim. Yup even God did not have to use 'super powers' to "create" the universe... but He did have to use "super powers" to make that universe 'manifest'. See my signature line.

 

If your signature line is as ridiculous and silly as your waffling desperate posts, and it probably is, I see no reason to read it....

 

when you're safe and warm and well fed in your big house in America, it's ease to focus on the puppies and forget the rest (of the same god's handiwork).

 

ah ... for the same reason theists 'judge' god for puppies, sunsets, charitable actions on the part of Christians, etc etc

are you really this dim?

 

Well, my signature line is an excerpt from a source of jurisprudential knowledge. But of course, you might be one who considers jurisprudence as something that is silly and waffling.

 

When I see a vibrant, colorful sunset, I see a vibrant, colorful sunset. And it is beautiful. This is actually EXACTLY why I don't even NEED to reach and take leaps of faith for superstition or magic.... The reality of life an nature is beautiful enough for me to be satisfied.

 

okay, perhaps you are.

how can 'not fathomable to the human brain in our state' (whatever the (*)(*)(*)(*) that means) be fathomable in the first place? if it's outside of our ken, it's outside of our ken. we can imagine there are invisible multihued jellyfish floating around our heads every time we have a happy thought, but it would be merely a pleasing personal fantasy.

hard to explain unless one has experienced it? are you seriously suggesting that some very special folk are honoured by glimpses into that which has been unknown to humanity since day 1? unknown as in ... we don't even know that we don't know, because how could we? if this isn't the flagrantly self-congratulatory mental masturbation I dunno what is.

 

No, just your waffling, sillyl, pointless posts

 

I thought this god was not only omnipotent, but benevolent. That photo may be representative of an omnipotent god, but not a benevolent god. Or conversely, that photo could represent a benevolent god, but certainly not omnipotent.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. ....Epicurus

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I see you are going to be one who poses one absurd question after another to argue your point. That is evidence of an incredibly weak point.

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We must be siblings because my dad said exactly the same thing!

 

the problem for some, is that the prosaic is never enough. just like easily bored preteens, who are the prime target audience for the fantasy genre in film and fiction. it must be a drag to find life so lacking in theatrics that one can't be properly titillated unless there's a mysterious superhero involved.

 

Your free will argument falls flat in the context of a benevolent AND omnipotent god. It's a religious copout. If your god is both of those, there is no free will. He knows what will occur to all of us before the moment we are born. To deny that is to deny his omnipotence. To allow evil is to deny his benevolence. You really can't have both.

Epicurus was correct.

 

Isn't it nice to be able to express opinions on this forum? I will reserve my opinion regarding you and your posts at this time.

 

PROVE your god gave us free will!

 

Well, IF there is no free will, then that means that all of your actions are controlled by something other than your own being. other than your own consciousness, other than your own knowledge, other than the sum total of all knowledge on Earth. Have you met up with ET?

 

Why? I am perfectly satisfied with your argument that we don't have any free will. That would mean that there is some unknown force that is controlling our every movement, our every thought, our every desire..... Who or what is controlling your being? Even your knowledge cannot be the controlling factor, as that is part of your being and you have admitted that we don't have free will.

 

Fail.

PROVE to us your god gave us free will. You made the claim. Prove it. You make the claim of an the existence of all-powerful AND benevolent god. The proof in the photo is not of benevolence. We all see that.

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I'm not making any statements about free will. You made the claim. You're also the one harassing dairyair for proof of statements. I'm trying to hold you to your own standards. Where's your proof of omniscience, benevolence and free will?

Can't do it, can you?

 

P

That's exactly what I'm suggesting. And NO, I'm not a very special person. I also wouldn't expect someone of your negativity to understand or even attempt to understand. Some pieces of the puzzle are probably very irrelevant.

Not religious either so put that stupid assumption to bed. Have a nice day.

 

I also stated that I accept your argument that we don't have free will. Now what? So, by my accepting your argument against free will, then there is no fail within my position.

Sure I can. MY PROOF is the 'Bible'. Now whether or not you want to accept that PROOF is irrelevant. You wanted to know "Where's your proof of omniscience, benevolence, and free will?" In other words the 'Bible' is MY PROOF.

 

The Bible is circular reasoning at its best. That's a logical FALLACY!. The OPPOSITE of proof.

Here's another example of circular reasoning. Substitute 'Bible' for 'Internet'. Bonjour!

[video=youtube;v_CgPsGY5Mw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CgPsGY5Mw[/video]

The Bible is proof of nothing except that some person(s) wrote it. You have not proven anything except say "Bible".

 

That is not a Theological fallacy. So the fallacy is found in you attempting to critique the 'Bible', religion, faith, belief, etc., using secular logic. Want to get on board with a discussion about the 'Bible' then switch over to Theologic statements.

BTW: that is a cute commercial. Every time I see it on TV, I laugh because it reminds me of non-theists in their use of secular logic.

 

If you can't back up your statement that your benevolent, all-powerful god gave us free will, then just say so and be done with it.

 

So you believe whatever is written in old books pertaining to the supernatural or gods? How many of these have you read which you subsequently believed were true? Every one of them? If you didn't believe some of them, what reason did you have for not believing them, if your criteria for believing them is the fact they were written? Evidently your reason for not believing some was entirely a matter of personal taste, since they all meet your criteria (that being they were written). Extrapolating, this means any you do believe are also a matter of personal taste. Obviously, this has no bearing on whether or not these old books are true, and we simply 'choose' a book familiar to us from childhood or our geographical/cultural location. In which case, they're all true, and none are true.

Gosh, how do you theists ever untangle the tangled web?

 

Some but not all... some I am still waiting for confirmation.

Never took the time to do a count.

See above.

They were all written, but some of them have not been confirmed.

Evidently you are presuming to know my reasoning. When did you become a professional mind reader?

Extrapolating? Your inference is something that comes from your mind,,, not mine.

Similar to the way that you and others have to untangle the wicked web that you weave, except in our case, we have the Holy Spirit to act as a guide and counselor.

 

... exrin tion?...
Remember that all men but modern man went extinct 40 millennium ago, and it could happen again.
Reality is God, and we must obey his rules, or else.