Neely was a threat and a danger to everyone around him

threatening people and yelling and telling people you’re going to murder someone?
Sure that’s normal for you maybe. But that’s not to be taken lightly.
So once again, how did you come by your submission and ground fighting knowledge? Or are you just pretending you understand how it works?

Wait, I get the feeling you think this poor, sad, black guy wasn’t do anything wrong, and some former Marine got all charged up with racism, and decided to choke him to death for no reason and laugh about murdering somebody.

 

Here's what you're not grasping: Initially subduing him or holding him for police isn't the issue. Strangling him to death when they've got him restrained is.
He wasn't authorized for deadly force at the point he used it to kill a man.

 

Oh my yes, Penny is most definitely culpable in Neely's untimely death.

To what extent he is liable is for the courts, both criminal and civil, to decide.

 

One of the questions that will come up is what type of hold Penny was attempting to apply. There's a good chance he was attempting a blood choke. But, simulated training where you have a willing participant is not the same thing when you have someone struggling. However, once Neely was unconscious the threat was eliminated. New York has a duty to retreat, but there are exceptions to that. This is going to be a complicated trial, and it can be determined that Neely had some culpability.

Ultimately, we have known that the subways have been unsafe for a while now. People are afraid to use the subways. And, there has been little effort to enhance security on them. This tragic death is partly on the city for allowing it to get to this point without making an effort to improve the situation.

 

A properly applied blood choke takes seconds. If you **** up a use of force and use too much guess what you did? You murdered a guy.

 

I doubt this ex-marine ever tried to properly apply a blood choke to anyone who wasn't sitting still. But, yeah.. he had to have known there was compression on the neck and the time he held the choke had a significant risk of loss of life... even if it were a properly applied blood choke held for several minutes.

 

im pretty strong on my submission knowledge. I don’t think he believed he WAS strangling him just holding him in the only manner he was capable of. I’m his mind there was no deadly force, only restraint.

 

LOL he's been trained he doesn't get to claim ignorance. It is not reasonable to claim a person has no idea that strangling someone IE wrapping them up in a chokehold and applying pressure until they stop moving, has no idea it could kill them or cause grievous bodily harm.
He used deadly force when not authorized, a man died because of it = murder of one form or another.

 

well, for what it’s worth I’ve never once had a service member come to BJJ and have his **** together so I doubt he could tell if he was doing an airway choke or a carotid choke. I think he felt he was restraining him not murdering him. If anything he was negligent but that’s my opinion.

 

They might offer him a neg plea deal, but with people 1) telling him he might kill the guy, 2) his training and 3) basic common sense telling you if you strangle someone for 15 minutes until they stop moving that might cause GBH or kill them, its most likely reckless homicide at minimum.
IDK about New York law but that should be basically 'murder 2' in most jurisdictions.

 

I question what's so damn difficult for three guys to hold down a slim guy until the cops arrive without using a choke for 15 mins?
Getting backstory evidence before a jury isn't an easy task, for the prosecutor or defence.
If he goes to trial it will be interesting if NYC's failure of a tracking system for Neely after he was released from (18?) months incarceration and released to some type of half way residence where he just walked away will be admitted as some kind of evidence?

 

It's not easy to subdue someone who is struggling. Police officers have handcuffs. Civilians do not. Unless you render the person unconscious you generally need to put pressure on their chest which if he died from that people would be calling it murder as well. It also wasn't a full three people subduing him. One person was doing the majority of it. One person was trying to control his arms (and failing) while the third person didn't do much. At least that's how it looked from the video I saw.

Also, articles say the hold was applied for a few minutes, not fifteen. Was that the police/emt response time or the hold time? In either event, it shouldn't have taken 15 minutes for police in NYC to get there. That's absurd.

 

I understand that, but what lead up to that moment is the key is what I am arguing. That will determine if Penny is guilty of homicide or not.

 

Common info is not the same as legal info. And once you give your statements under oath, then you are on the hook. I still think the police are looking for witnesses on the train leading up to the incident and have all the info of the incident itself.

He was ranting and raving. Two options people can do, ignore them or deal with them. Penny decided to deal with him and it was at a time he was still on the Subway. But the question is why was he ranting and raving and what started it. Was it on his own or did someone else other than Penny provoked him and then he went off. All of that has to be answered to the best extent possible to determine whether or not Penny can convince a jury of self-defense.

 

Missy Nikki trying to be relevant and outdo DuhSantis .
She's once again dredging the swamp for votes.





Gov. Hochul corrects Nikki Haley for suggesting Daniel Penny pardon: 'It works after someone's been convicted of a crime'
3 hours ago



Nikki Haley calls for New York governor to pardon Daniel Penny
10 hours ago

The Hill
Haley says NY governor should pardon Daniel Penny in subway case

 

If anyone's interested.

'Why Prosecutors Waited Before They Charged Daniel Penny'

End if article snip:

'After the ruling that Jordan Neely’s death on a subway train was a homicide, the Manhattan district attorney’s office faced several choices over how to charge his killer.

To prove manslaughter in the second degree, which carries a 15-year maximum sentence, prosecutors must prove that Mr. Penny’s behavior was not only reckless, but that he was aware his actions could kill Mr. Neely.

Marines are trained on how to use chokeholds. His military background could help prosecutors show he should have been aware he could kill Mr. Neely.

Mr. Penny, however, could make a compelling case to grand jurors who ride the subway and fear for their safety, Ms. Friedman Agnifilo said.

“If I were his lawyer,” she said, “I would counsel him to testify before the grand jury because I think he has a perspective that could be sympathetic.”

cont:
https://archive.is/6MJ7z

 

Get a load of this defence from Penny's lawyer.
Well, he best go tell the medical examiner.
OMG! "could be interpreted as"?

Daniel Penny’s lawyer: Client ‘wasn’t choking anyone’

snip:

'Penny) wasn’t choking anyone. What he was doing is he was restraining someone,” Kenniff said Wednesday on “CUOMO.” “Restraining someone who was menacing other individuals on the train, and threatening other individuals with threats that could be interpreted as not just threats to do violence, but threats to take life.”

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/daniel-penny-lawyer-jordan-neely-death-chokehold/

 

seems like tucker is off the air now, but if verbally unhinged is the criteria for a choke hold he is lucky nobody choked him out

 

if this is true, why don't we have places to keep "violent and suicidal maniacs who pose a severe threat to others." if anyone is that dangerous they need to be studied and medicated.

 

what crap. neeley was transiting from point a to point b. threatening people is what paranoid schizophrenic people do.

under our new louisiana law neeley, and penny, could have been concealed carrying with predictable carnage on the crowded subway.

 

I gotta disagree. But regardless, the illness may explain the behavior but that does not excuse the behavior. You can't kill your neighbor because your dog says he is the anti-Christ. Not even if you really, really believe your neighbor is the anti-Christ.

 

personally i get a kick out of the republican now blaming mental illness after decades of not wanting to spend money on health care....i also believe enough normal people will sooner or later just get fed up with violent gun deaths and ban most if not all guns, but THAT may be still decades away

 

Wasn't it California democrats that pioneered shutting down the institutions and setting the crazy free to run amok with the rest of us?

How else were they going to pay for the Golden Parachute pensions...

 

50 years ago, i case you have not noticed the world has mutated

 

I think it is very premature for anyone to ask for a pardon on anyone who has not been to trial yet. Yes, Penny is accused, but he is also innocent until proven guilty. Additional evidence is still being gathered and that may affect whether Penny will stand trial or not. And if Penny stands trial, then he may have a good chance at reasonable doubt.