When WAS America great?

Yes iKnow but it is not a primary source.

Do you really not understand what primary sources are?

 

Some people post non sequitur responses - why?

 

Income and wealth inequality were historically high during the roaring ‘20’s.

https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/d...the 1920s, there was,24 percent to 34 percent.

I guess if you think massive unprecedented transfer of wealth from the poorest to the richest is great, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

And which other influential country with “equality” is leading the world or allowed unprecedented advancements in tech to occur. Love to know.

 

We have certainly enriched the world monetarily as well as by suppressing authoritarianism in the past.

I’m just not a fan of wealth transfer from the poorest to the most wealthy. It occurred during Covid as well with certain businesses being the only ones allowed to operate. I believe it’s a mistake to foster policies that favor elites.

But it does not mean I’m opposed to capitalism or success or democracy or leadership.

 

I do.
But I am not an employee of Britannica. Nor do I care to research where their primary sources are from.
They are trusted in their research.
AS you pointed out, since 1768. Almost 300 yrs of credibility.

If it interests you, find out their primary sources. It's not going to matter for this forum.

 

You posted what think was the best time in USA.
That's on you. Since you referenced times during the pandemic.

 

I am.
Thx.

Afterall, that's what this thread is about. People's opinions.

 

Huh? Did you leave a few words out? Allow with you lies.

 

Yeh. Just thought I’d throw in some facts for spice. Facts are good to season opinions. Of course some prefer bland unsubstantiated opinions, but again that’s their right.

 

True, it's off topic but my primary sources (greek and roman, from the actually era) state that there were many slaves in Egypt under greek and roman rule.

 

1491

 

Im not sure people in the 50s watching their kids and husbands shipped off to Korea as the Soviet Union was stealing our nuclear secrets, felt hopeful.

 

I’m gonna have to call bullshit on all of this because I don’t think people ever cared about each other or helped each other, and I’ve mentioned the multiple violent incidents, interracial marriages being outlawed, homosexuality being a major taboo, open McCarthyism, blatant racism, desegregation still being disapproved of by many whites even after it was passed, repeatedly that prove this.

Like I said earlier, an awful lot of older white men are making themselves known in this thread just by how they claim things were better in the 50s.

 

My dad volunteered and fought in Korea. At the time, there was a lot of optimism regarding defeating collectivism.

 

I don’t like it either. There is a rot that’s world wide NOT just here. COVID just opened up the floodgates.

There is no utopia of equality. The guy cutting grass can’t get paid similarly to the guy RUNNING the business that paid for all the equipment that allows the individual contributed to cut grass. The owner risked something. The guy doing the mowing risks NOTHING. His responsibility is individual, simple and OVER once his day ends. The owners job never ends.

Now does that mean it’s OK to pay the mower peanuts? The minimum possible just so he doesn’t want to leave every minute? Nope. I think the owner could run the business better paying all his staff well enough that they stick around longer, build trust, are happier, etc. Some businesses do work that way. Others take advantage and do the bare minimum.

Now does it also mean the guy just operating a weed whacked should get paid enough to own a home and take care of a family of 4? Don’t think that’s possible. That could make it so the RISK to own the business isn’t worth the reward of profiting enoigh to make all that responsibility worthy it!! That’s when it all falls apart. That’s Business 101.

Now how does that translate to a Musk or Bezos? Some people under them get paid amazingly well. Others don’t. Depends on the job. The VALUE, skill level, replaceability. Maybe they could pay the lower skilled workers more. Bezos can just arbitrarily use his salary and just give the packers and stockers $100/hr. But his business isn’t PRIVATE!!! It’s public. It gets hairy

 

Agree. Good post. It’s not simple. I’m a big fan of self employment and employee democratically controlled/owned businesses personally. It clears things right up. If you are getting exactly what you worked for there’s no argument about what you are worth.

Also makes me a classical socialist much to my initial surprise! I’ve learned to live with it. LOL.

Still I’m all for any kind of willing contractual agreements on wages/employment. I have no interest in forcing people into anything—self employment or wage earning.

I’m just opposed to government and elite colluding to make it easier to take advantage of labor. Or stop labor from participating at all like during Covid.

 

And what happened with that optimism as time went on?

 

So I get criticized for being an older white man. Apparently you didn't live through the 50's so I will call your post the same thing you called mine.

 

Consider what I said as doubled down.

 

I didn’t, but based on the posts I can easily tell the nostalgia and claims that things were better are completely overlooking just how bad things were for just about every single group of people that wasn’t white or male.

 

Hi my comments are not directed at you and made just for adding to the discussion. I know what you meant. It is not your words I debate,

I think it is more accurate to say a white male or ANY one of any colour or gender who returned from WW2 or the Korean War in the 50's you had to deal with the residue of trauma left over from what you did and so I am not about to say it was a great era for vets or their families witnessing or feeling the behaviour of trauma including excessive drinking, suicide, domestic violence, chronic illness and injuries for these vets. I say that because during the 50's we now know from psychiatric journals demographic and psychographic profiles, many whites like blacks or anyone who served and their families it was not all utopia even though suburbs exploded and so did jobs.

Also I am not sure gays or lesbians of any colour in the 50's would think it was great but I can not speak for them. Certainly people of all colours with disabilities faced prejudices and barriers as well and all women of any colour faced serious issues with sexual assault and access to health care issues.

Next skin colour stereotype ignores those who were below the poverty line, those with mental illness, illness in the family hardships, etc., regardless of skin colour.

May I say as a Canadian my poiny is your country is made up of all kinds of people. To simply assume they had it good because they were or are white is as unfair as saying that about any identified group.

Skin colour is being used today to make sweeping assumptions about privilege. I myself in Canada cringe at it if for no other reason when you are Jewish we hear that with the stereotype "all you Jews are rich". Well that is not the case nor do we define ourselves as "white". Interestingly people of colour see us as "white" but "white" people often see us not as white but "Jews" and that more often then not brought negative labels. I grew up in Quebec where speaking French or English also brought labels of stereotype in addition to whether you were "British" white, other ethnic minority white, visible minority, straight/gay, female/male, etc. The Quebec nationalist separatist movement became full of extremist bigots using the excuse they were trying to protect the French language as their pretense for bigotry. The politicians never forgot to remind French speaking minorities from Africa, Asia (non whites) and people not descended from people from Brittany and Normandy as not being "purelaines" justifying bigotry against us and its codified in Quebec laws not withstanding our Charter of Rights forbidding it because there is a clause in that Charter that allows provinces to exempt themselves from equitable treatment provisions, similar to how certain states differ themselves from federal US law.

That said there was segregation in Canada and the US. We had it. We just were polite about it. Your citizens would burn crosses. Ours smiled at you but would not allow you on their beaches or in their golf clubs or neighbourhoods with a polite smile. Remember our federal police never needed guns and to shoot aboriginals. We just politely segregated them with references to the King. Everything was cloaked with a polite smile and nose cocked in the air.

My only point is it is too simplistic to use skin colour alone as an assumption for whether people had it good or have it good. Each person has a script. I myself want to know that script and not assume their script simply because they have pale skin or dark skin.

The US has always had poor people, mentally ill people, chronically ill people, and all kinds of minorities face serious challenges. All countries do. The point is what makes your country great is those who overcame and overcome barriers.

I am sorry but the Trump years has taken the pride and swagger of you "Yanks" (said in a good way) and reduced it to extremist bigotry attached to Trump comments about Americans. Every speech he insults all of you and talks about you in such divisive terms. I couldn't believe he mocked Niki Haley's husband for his military service. I am not surprised though.

Look we have similar issues in Canada but if a politician said what Trump has about soldiers, they could never get elected. We aren't as vocal about our patriotism, its very low key, stiff lipped quiet, but no we just do not speak ill of our soldiers and I know most Americans do not but there sure seem to be people cheering on Trump calling themselves American patriots when he does that.

Your country is great because so many of your people in specifically identified groups including visible minorities overcame obstacles placed in their way.

I am arguing what Martin Luther King and even later Malcolm X said before he died.

What makes a nation great is when ALL its people see the struggles they may think are unique to them but can now see them manifest in other similar ways with other groups or individuals and when we can see those similarities, that;s when we unify to overcome and build the fabric of greatness in our nations and that is what builds a nation and makes it great.



My comments come from growing up visiting war vets at hospitals and listening to this lesson. Those vets came in every damn shade but blew up the same way.

 

Facts rarely matter when it comes to people's opinions.
There's been no other decade in history of USA that was called the roaring (insert decade or time frame).
Sure, there were bad times for some people.
There were bad times for many during the 1950s. The decade several have said they think is the best time frame.
Did you post all the bad things going on in the 1950s?

 

Post your primary sources.
Lets see how their credibility stacks up to Britannica.

 

Consider what I said, the whites cancelled black people, lynching, Jim Crow laws, redlining, as doubled down.

What you said is with blinders.