‘New normal’ in gun sales: 16 million or more

if unicorns could fly, horses might no longer be the preferred animal form of transportation

 

just stating a fact, the more guns the more gun deaths
the more cars, the more car deaths
more personal swimming pools, more swimming pool deaths

 

Its not a meme. If you have stats which agree with the original claim, then why don't you post them?

My numbers are from combines info from:

- Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
- Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR)
- Program’s Supplementary Homicide Report (SHR)
- Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)


And your numbers are from.....where?

Number of justifiable homicides by law enforcement officers and private citizens in the United States in 2021 = 479

Total homicides = 24,576
Firearm homicides = 19,384
And THAT is from CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

The claim was that CDC reports justifiable homicides and criminal homicides as 1-1. Its simply not true, and its nowhere near of being close.

 

I dont know about that. If you separate out blacks in the US, they have the same murder by gun rate as Honduras. Separate out whites in the US they have about the same murdrer rate by guns as most European countries.

 

more guns in a society means the potential for more gun deaths

how many gun deaths in a country that bans them... vs here?

how many car deaths in a society without cars?

I am not saying to ban guns are cars, just stating the facts

 

Hi again, FreshAir.

Correct in all three areas. We should be mindful of any death from whatever cause that was preventable and be willing to support attempts to reduce them.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

Hi, Turtledude.

Thank you for taking time to post a response. It has advanced the discussion no end. )

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . 'n un-shot.

 

do you prefer a turbo prop unicorn or a jet propulsion version?

 

You're entitled to that opinion, despite the chosen anecdotes matching up perfectly with the available data; to each his own. You don't get to dictate the examples cited to illustrate relevant points.

Which is like saying I may or may not get wet during a rain shower absent an umbrella. Why use an umbrella instead of running for cover? "..what the eventual outcome would have been without the intervention without the intervention is unknown..." and should therefore not be discussed. Whatevs, as the kids are wont to say.

I remain curious, as you've not addressed it: do you advocate Americans being denied the option deployed by me & my dad during incidents like the ones you're so eager to "set aside" and not talk about?

 

Europe has fewer guns than the US, but whites in the US experience murder by gun at about the same rate as most European countries. Other factors other than the # of guns have more of an impact.

 

Hello again, Torus,

Yes, this is a very enjoyable and, I feel, productive exchange.

I think that different people can perceive the same environment in entirely different ways based primarily on past experience so, your observations about perceptions seem entirely valid.

Some people feel like they are in danger in the safest areas either from past experiences and / or because they're wired that way.

After jumping out of choppers in Laos, I became a civilian and walked and hitch-hiked from Stonehenge where I spent the night to Babylon where I also spent the nights wandering the ruins. Overall, I spent 10 - 11 months walking and hitch - hiking by myself around Turkey and the Islamic Middle East.

Maybe it's because I didn't anticipate hostile experiences that I had none. I was treated wonderfully by the Arabs who treated me to home cooked meals, gave me shelter, took me to see the local ruins, gave me rides, introduced me to their friends and generally treated me like an honored guest as it is their tradition to treat travelers well.

As I mentioned in my previous Post, I've watched NYC change dramatically since the 1960s and, now, I walk around without expecting trouble too. That wasn't the case 40 years ago when I did carry a pistol in NYC and I think even you might have been reluctant to walk the streets especially at night.

I don't know how accurate your statistics are but I already agree that our current homicide rate is entirely unacceptable.
I oppose additional gun laws as a means to reduce homicides not because I own firearms but because they distract attention from measures that I think will work like more affordable and accessible Mental Health Care.
I know that the thought of higher taxes is anathema in many circles that contain 2nd Amendment supporters but I would gladly pay more in taxes for more affordable and accessible Mental Health Care in America.

I spent 6 years as a Psychiatric Case Worker on an Emergency Psychiatric Unit treating individuals who were violent, delusional, homicidal and / or suicidal. I remember burning out because my case load was too heavy for me to treat people who wanted and needed help with their violence, anger and depression. Because of inadequate funding, I was unable to devote the amount of attention required for people who later went on to harm themself or someone else. This was especially frustrating because many of the violent and suicidal patients were treatable and the harm they went on to do was preventable.

I went on to work in the Juvenile Justice system where I encountered the same frustration of inadequate funding to treat dysfunctional, violent and depressed families and juvenile offenders. After several years of doing the best I could with the resources available, I finally had enough of attempting to fix "broken" people and took up blacksmithing.

You're right in that there is no "Silver bullet" if we think that solving America's violence problem can be done quickly, cheaply and / or easily. I think that it is noteworthy that the countries with the least amount of violence (i.e. least number of homicides) are countries that have more accessible and affordable mental health care.

Finally, I think that there is hope because there are many people who need and want help for their anger, violence and depression. Americans simply must recognize that we cannot afford not to treat our country's violence problem and I think that they would be willing to pay for it.

Thanks and enjoy your holiday,

 

Do you support eliminating automobiles because they are responsible for a roughly equal or greater number of annual deaths on any given year. We got along just fine for 99% of our existence without them so the argument that we can't live without them is not true.

I just want to know how much of a sacrifice you are personally willing to make

 

Hi, InWalkedBud.

Your interest in me personally, as opposed to the issue, is touching.

To address your question: whether or not I'm opposed makes absolutely no difference in the ongoing deaths which occur from gunshot. Let's say I'm opposed to actions by my fellow Americans which generate fear in my fellow citizens to the point where some feel they must be armed. I'll not go further with this.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . 'n un-shot.

 

Hi, Fatback.

That's a nonsense question, not worthy of addressing with a rational reply.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . 'n un-shot.

 

An evasion, and not a clever one.

Of course you won't. An honest answer to the question paints a picture you'd rather we not see. But your refusal says a great deal as well; more than you realize. Color me unsurprised, and thanks for clearing that up for us.

 

That's the easy way of avoiding having to answer the question .

Stay safe and well and unrun over .

You should be careful of those 3,000 lb bullets that kill people all around those country every year. But you don't care about those because that's not something you're willing to sacrifice giving up.

You see I have road bicycles all of my life and I had someone use a car as a weapon to try to kill me before. And now recently I have started riding motorcycles.


If you actually cared about saving lives you would care about saving lives in any way you could not just the ones that are not inconvenient to you..

So until you're actually worried about how to save lives in every way you can I don't want to hear your fake outrage about firearms when motorists are the far greater threat

 

Are black Americans not real Americans?

 

What’s a real American?

 

I don't know but some don't want to include black people in US statistics as if they don't belong there

 

Who told you you that? I’m pretty sure they’re well accounted for among a variety of statistics.

 

Err, the poster I quoted

 

Part and parcel of a declining empire .. increased poverty - homelessness - and a whole lot of unmet expectations >>> civil unrest .. scares folks .. who go out and buy guns for protection .. but now everyone is armed .. in a Nation with increasing wealth inequality .. more opportunity for venting via the nozzel of a gun .. which everyone has.. but, don't worry .. the tough on crime police state is comming .. gonna protect you .. by taking your rights away .. just like the last time.

 

And how many of those have been smuggled over the southern border to further destabilise countries to the south of the USA ther by increasing immigration pressure?

 

https://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/

Yeah - difficulty is that all of the people on the site above were “law abiding” until they weren’t

 

yeah we could lock up every single black male the minute he turns 15 and let him out at age 50 and guess what-crime would go way down. If we are going to crap all over our constitutional rights, we might as well do something that actually works. But then again, we know that crime control is NOT what motivates those who want to prevent American citizens from owning the same guns that civilian police use in our neighborhoods