“House passes resolution to overturn new federal gun regulation”

He didn’t say AR pistols. He said braced pistols, of which the AR version is but one of them. AR is not in the post you responded to at all.

“At least three million guns with stabilizing braces are in circulation in the U.S., according to the ATF. Estimates by the Congressional Research Service indicate there are currently between 10 million and 40 million stabilizing braces in circulation.”

https://news.yahoo.com/federal-judge-texas-blocks-biden-122125933.html

Even if it’s the low end, that’s 9 million+ felonies being committed every day, since the grace period to register ended. 9 million.

 

So, we have 3 million vs 40 million. And if there are 40 million braces to 3 million pistols, it means there are more than 10 braces for each pistol. Something it not adding up here. The estimate is that 1.4 million people are affected by this thing.

 

According to congress, we have 10-40 million.

Yes. Your math is bad. If there are 250,000 registers for them out of three million, you’re left with 2.75 million felonies being committed every day.

Considering we are talking about roughly 400 million total weapons in circulation, 10 million is not a weird number(there are way more than 3 million pistols out there, BTW. Multiply your made up number by at least 30 and you’re in the ballpark).

Also, it would be nice if you backed up your numbers with links.

 

I suppose you'd have to show why its bad. I dont even know what math you are talking about, because I don't reall doing any math here.

We are not talking about weapons, we are talking about the braces

 

Oh well never mind then; ONLY 1.4 MILLION people made criminals overnight. “This Thing”, is no big deal …

… unless you’re one of them.
One point four million is just shy of how many people are on active duty in our military … BTW.

 

No, we’re talking about people and, firearms; IN COMMON USE”. That, according to Heller, should be protected by the Second Amendment.

 

Yes, 1.4 vs 40.

 

The number isn’t the important data point once it becomes significant. I think we are beyond “significant” at or before 1.4 million. I’m sure you would agree IF you were one of them.

 

You don't read much, do you?
“The final rule provided possessors of such firearms the option to comply with the registration requirements of the National Firearms Act through a tax-free process using either the ATF eForms System or a paper application process with a deadline for such applications of 11:59 PM (ET) on May 31, 2023,” Erik Longnecker, Deputy Chief of the ATF’s Public Affairs Division, told The Reload. “As of June 1, 2023, ATF received 255,162 applications for tax-free registration.”

That number represents just a fraction of the braced guns believed to have been sold in the decade since the ATF first classified a version as outside the scope of the NFA. In the impact assessment for the rule, the ATF estimated that three to seven million devices exist. However, the Congressional Research Service puts the number much higher at somewhere between 10 and 40 million.
https://thereload.com/atf-says-a-quarter-million-guns-registered-under-pistol-brace-rule/
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11763#:~:text=April 19, 2021-,Handguns, Stabilizing Braces, and Related Components,into a short-barreled rifle.
In the past eight years, larger, heavier handguns and pistol grip firearms have seen increased sales likely due, in no small part, to stabilizing braces. Most major firearms manufacturers are making firearms equipped with stabilizing braces as part of their featured product lines. While there are no available statistics to gauge authoritatively the number of stabilizing braces already made and sold in the United States, unofficial estimates suggest that there are between 10 and 40 million stabilizing braces and similar components already in civilian hands, either purchased as accessories or already attached to firearms made at home or at the factory. Altering the classification of firearms equipped with stabilizing braces would likely affect millions of owners.

 

Yes, I read quite a bit, - enough to be able to point out the discrepancies. I wish more people would do the same. Unofficial estimates.....LOLS

 

You realize that people can make their own braces right? You realize brace purchases ain't tracked in any way, so all they really have are their unofficial estimates.
Even the ATF estimates 3-7 million.
Go by THEIR estimate if you have to, 3-7 million people -250k in active commission of a felony post rule.
Is that nit picky enough for you? Are you not able to take the estimate of the actual authority charged with enforcing the law here?
What further conditions must you set before you admit several million people are now committing a ****ing felony?

 

That's my point. The numbers range from 3 to 40 million.

Do you have numbers for people who have been found guilty of this felony yet? I have not heard of anyone yet.

 

Did the math in the post. You just have to follow along.

I know. I’m trying to get you to see that 10 million braces isn’t a stretch considering the amount of weapons, especially pistols(around 100 million) in the peoples hands. You aren’t though.

 

IF you want to make an argument, make it against something someone has said, not against an argument you invented, because otherwise you end up arguing with yourself.

 

I did. You are not following along. Besides, you’re trying to argue things the other poster didn’t say anyways(AR pistols).

 

Let's assume 3 million only then.
3 million - 250k = the number of persons now in active commission of a felony because of this rule.

 

He likes to pretend to not understand

 

Why do you keep repeating this? You think people didn't hear you the first time? Some people are law abiding, and some others are not. It is what it is. There are tons of illegal firearms out there. No one disagrees with that. Maybe the Congress manages to overturn this and they'll get away with it. We shall see.

 

"Get" away with what? Following the law and the ATF's rules, being patriotic Americans, hobbyists? What do they need to "get away" with?

If there's 30 million of them then they should, but if, there's only 1 million ... hang em?

 

Again: The ATF doesn't get to MAKE felonies by enforcing something other than the statutory definition.
They've made 3 million per their lowest estimate.
The rule of lenity requires this regulation be struck. It was already invoked on the bumpstock ban case. This is the exact same circumstance, legally speaking.


And, AGAIN: How many caveats will you have before you admit the ATF just arbitrarily made at least 3 million active felonies with the stroke of a pen?

 

There is a school of thought that says prior to the 14th Amendment, this statement is precisely correct. I, however, disagree with that line of thinking, and here is why. Simply put, and as but a single example, what good does it do to Joe and Jane Sixpack if they have a right to not have their property and possessions searched for no reason by the Feds, if a State or Local level government or law enforcement agency can violate that right however they please?

However, that point and the entire line of thought has been rendered obsolete because the 14th Amendment extended those protections to layers of government other than the Feds, and that is definitive. So, while our ancestors that lived prior to it's enactment may have been in a situation where their State could ignore the BoR and do whatever the fsck they wanted, that is certainly no longer the case, so discussing whether or not it was true prior to that being enacted is, at this point, nothing more than interesting academic mental masturbation.

 

You have to ask after raving about them being in process of committing felonies?

I don't recall saying anything about hanging anyone. If you want to discuss, then discuss thing that have been said, not things you invent.

If you want to discuss, then discuss thing that have been said, not things you invent. At this point you are arguing with yourself.

PS. ATF says about 1.4M are affected.

Wait, are you under the impression I am supporting ATF decision on this? LOL . No, I said early on I hope Congress overturns it, I am simply disputing people pulling numbers like 40 million out of their asses.

 

I’m under the impression you’ve taken this thread in a direction that is meaningless. And I can’t imagine why you seem to be enjoying that.

I’ve been trying to point out that whatever the number of “braced pistols” there are, at this point, getting an exact count is irrelevant. And may NEVER be a known quantity. Which, if the ATF decision is overturned, hopefully, will never be known. Because one of, and in my mind, THE MAIN reason to resist this reversal of policy is so how many “braced pistols/SBRS” there are is NEVER known.

Paying $200 to the ATF so that they can’t put you in jail and confiscate your brand new firearm equates to mob like protection money. But just like business owners have paid “protection” money to the mob, Americans would just pony up the $200. IF, that was ALL there was to it.

BUT! Along with paying the ATF their $200 protection owners of this capriciously created class of firearms ALSO must REGISTER their firearm and create a record, with the ATF, that they own it, so that the ATF knows about it in perpetuity.

And THEN there’s NOTHING to stop the ATF from waking up one morning, and just like this (dumb ass) reversal of policy they can decide to come take your firearm anyway. THAT is WHAT this bruhaha is ABOUT. It’s about keeping the ATF’s GD nose out of law abiding Americans business.

Fundamentally this thread is about NOT being able to answer your question of precisely how many “braced” firearms there are. What matters is it doesn’t MATTER and it shouldn’t MATTER and that’s the way it should BE and that’s the way it, hopefully, will STAY.<-period

 

Then why do you bother? Repeating you post is not helping.

 

IT’S NOT A REPETITION!

Why did YOU just delete THE answer to your SO important question? Why this issue matters so very much is NEW ground not mentioned before in this thread; I can’t believe I haven’t pointed it out before.

I guess I should thank you for dragging our noses through pages and pages of nonsense. Because beating my head against that wall finally rang the bell that made me realize why this issue really matters.