237 Israeli soldiers committed suicide in ten years

You're on a raft of lead and the rescue services are on holiday. Building new squats I shouldn't wonder . Still, I have an aversion to cheats and the intellectually untrustworthy so I'm disinclined to permit them to ply their trade in this forum. Let's examine your arithmetic again. Without further wriggling- what is your figure for total British military regulars in 1984. 1984, of course, is the key historic date of your ...er.....sums.

Let's check out some posts to date;

 

Suicide is normally a bad thing but, in this case, it suggests the possibility they could be plagued by the guilt because of their actions.
Should this be the case with some, I pray they are allowed to enter heaven.

 

I would bet that suicides amongst combat soldiers has always been higher than population norms. War is the most horrific human endeavour and some psyches cannot reconcile their participation in such horror with their both their personal world image and morality.

BTW. I have been saying essentially the same thing about the arab "brothers" of the palestinians for years. Its refreshing to see a palestinian leader finally calling them out.

as to your avatar, I believe your use of the nazi swastika to be an inappropriate and totally inaccurate insult to the palestinians. They come in all political stripes, but certainly in general they do not share the same motivations of hatred that they our resident jewhating facists, neo-nazis and white power pinheads. Its the old enemy of my enemy.....

 

Name names.

 

Jonsa, as much as you keep saying it, there are no 'white power' pinheads, on here. (Well, that said..)

Any that do exist, tend to be in the US, some even self identify as Republicans.

You would not get any Europeans, Ozzies, or probably Canadians, running a thread title that went 'What should we do about the negro problem'. You know it + I know it. If I were personally a racist, then I would be loving those threads, and throwing my lot in with them. I don't. If I add to them at all, it is always to take the opposite position from them. Your over use of the term 'Jew hater' has, sadly, rendered it without true meaning, since applied strictly, you would even regard some Jews as Jew haters, if the Jews they were apparently hating on were of the Zionist/racist Jew sort.

What repeated use of such terms are, in practice, are useless ad hom's, that serve no purpose, other than in your own mind.

 

Wouldn't you agree that they know exactly who they are? I can't imagine anyone with such hatred and bigotry not being aware of it, the only dispute being which bucket they think they should not be in.

 

Seconded.

TMR, do you recall the time I was once having a good discussion with Gilos (or Uri?), and I asked him (after demonstrating that I simply cannot be racist), what a racist was. He couldn't do it. Do you remember? He was so literally tied in knots over it, that he was not able to do it, while maintaining the position that I was a racist.

Now, in the end, to be honest, I am long past actually caring. If all someone has is to use ad hom's, while playing the anti semite, or the race, or the Jew hater card, it says more about them, than anyone else. If someone on the internet wishes to slander me as racist, then intelligent people will soon realise that this is simply not true. Which then falls back on the person making the false claim, and makes them look bad.

 

First you say there are not white power pinheads and then contradict yourself. so you agree there are white power pinheads in this community.

Secondly I do not believe I have ever accused you of being such.

Thirdly, despite your repeated protestations about the the term anti-semite and jew hater, I have to strongly disagree. Jew haters are precisely that. If a jew hates jews then he can be as you would call him "self hating jew" so your argument is invalidated by the terms you yourself use. The fact that you conflate zionism with jewish domination and with standard jewhating exaggerated characteristics is indicative of jew hatred.

I don't get why you need to continue attempt to validate your hatred, when anyone with an iota of intelligence that read your posts over any length of time can see it is a vain attempt.

 

How so ? please explain.

 

Well, I would say that the Islamophobes and Zionists on here frequently get a pass because it's not officially regarded as anti-semitism which has become the convenient catch-all for all legitimate criticism of the crimes committed by the Israeli state.

 

I don't recall that Jack to be honest. But the use of the anti-semitic card has become so overused that the term has lost all meaning, rather like fascism, globalization, postmodernism and terrorism. I mean, when we have the Chief Rabbi of the UK inferring that Richard Dawkins is an anti-semite in an open public forum because of his criticism of "God", then we KNOW it has lost all legitimacy.

 

For one thing, I did not contradict myself, which is why I added the little bit in brackets.

Yes, there are some racists on here, who are white, and they do not hide the fact. As evidenced by just one example of a title I gave. Not to mention the overwheming racist remarks, against blacks and asians, that are truly so common on PF, that if you were a fair man, and you were to count the number of true racist remarks, against blacks and asians, on PF, for one day, and compare it to true anti Jewish remarks, you would, if you were being an honest man, find two things.

1) The former would outnumber the latter to the power of about 100-1.

2) The latter would never be as crass, nasty and vitriolic about it, and you would usually tend to find they are being critical of cited behaviours.

So, yes, there are those that are without doubt racists on here, and in the main, they tend to be right wing Americans, and Zionists. This is a fact, Jonsa, it is true, and again, anyone honest would just concede the point.

In a strange coincidence, those most likely to call anyone else racists, are...right wing American and Zionists.

Funny that.

And so to your last point. The age old problem we have is 'What is a Jew'? Now, you need not answer, as I am not actually expecting you to offer anything other than the stock answers. But TMR once managed to get an Israeli so tied in knots on here, that the Israeli himself was no longer able to define what a Jew was. And no wonder. No wonder it is confusing, and cannot truly be defned, when it seems to be all things, at different times, or different things, at the same time, depending on what fits best.

That is one reason Jew hater has no substance.

Another, it assumes some sort of 'waking up on the Jew hating side of the bed, just for something to do' position.

Sometimes people can be racist, for no apparent reason, I admit, and I am sure that there are those that would hate blacks, and asians, as well as Jews, but may have no basis to any of their arguements.

That is not what I offer. For all the lies about Stormfront, which just really makes the accuser seem even more of a liar, I either offer my own personal thoughts, in which case I say so, I v often quote to Haretz, I have used other mainstream Jewish sources, including the Jewish Quarterly, and the Jewish Encylopedia. I have quoted Gilad Atzmon (Jew), Hajo Meyer(Jew), Finkelstein(Jew), Chomsky(Jew), Jews against Zionism (Jews), True Torah Jews (Jews), IDF(Jews), and so on, and so on, and so on.

If I were a Jew hater, then the last thing I would do is habitually use Jewish sources and writers. I would want to give none a voice, for none would be deemed worthy, for I would 'hate' them.

Indeed, I would say citing Jewish sources makes up a good % of the sources I do cite, maybe as much as half.

The rest would probably come from a range of media sources, which, of course, anyone should check for themselves, anyway.

If anything, I would argue that on PF, I probably offer the most diverse range of sources, while avoiding those I myself would find questionable, such as Jihadwatch, Jew Watch, Rense, Inforwars, anything by Alex Jones AT all, etc.

The least cites you will get from me is corporate media outlets. Or links to tabloids, like the DM. I would count that as a good thing were I the reader.

I could rock up here, each day, and by definition of the fact that Zionists are various shades of racist, I could go on and on about 'Islamophobes', and call you lot racists, over, and over, and over.

And yet I hold back.

Why?

Why do I tend not to do this, to you and your posse?

For one thing, I do not need to say it over and over, I prefer to let the reader decide what is racist, and what is not.

For another thing, it would be an ad hom, I am sure, and I would count to ten, before I were penalised for it. Jonsa, I would NOT get to do it for one hour, let alone, every day, on almost every post.

Anyone honest would admit that is just true.

Lastly though, to keep doing it, it shows how little else I would have, if that was all I ever had.

 

Well said Jack, its worth a keep . I hope you dont mind me adding to my blog as this subject is certain to come up again - save you retyping all again . Send me a PM if rather I don't

Happy New Year. (wink).

 

Not at all.

You can use what you wish.

 

Jack . in the last 6 months , Jonsa have come up at least 3-4 times with the same argugments/accusations,

I just want draw his attention to it with a quick link - instead of going over the same thing over - over again.


(wink)

 

For sure.

It will make zero difference.

If Jonathon Hoffman of the Zionist foundation can get away with calling Hajo Meyer an 'anti semite', then I suggest wearing it as a badge of honour.

I also suggest never ceasing to shine a light on the various nefarious actions of Israel and organised Jewry, that we rarely, if it all, get to hear about, in the mainstream media, and certainly not the corporate US media, that is for sure.

They have the entire corporate media giving the Kosher approved version of what passes as news, but still it is not enough, nope 99% is never enough, which is precisely why they work so hard to shut down debates on the internet, even used DOS attacks.

Zionists are anti free speech and free expression, in reality.

They pretend to be otherwise, but in their every action, word, and deed, they are anti free expression.

 

where's the quick link?

the frequency of the same argument can be attributed to the frequency of the same argument.

not to worry. I know when you are being cute.

 

No. He means...aww..doesn't matter man, doesn't matter..

 

Could that be because there are a lot more racist white power pinheads in this community than full blow jew haters? Even those who are rather prolific?

Never say never. I do tend to find some jewhater posts to be critical of a cited behaviour and stand alone couldn't be considered bigoted. OTOH, there are many posts that are critical of a cited behaviour that incorporate hateful jewish stereotypes to explain or postulate on motivations for those behaviours. That is most certainly a clear indication of bigotry.

Yes, many white power pinheads are american, but I disagree with your contention that they are also zionists. Unless of course you think that the stormfront, national vanguard, american nazi party, KKK et.al are zionists,in which case I think we'd better talk about what a zionist is.

so it isn't funny. its simply a wrong statement on your part.

No, that is not a reason for the term jew hater having no substance. I notice your definition of jew is subject to the context of the argument you are attempting to make. We have discussed this many times, but for some reason you wish to re-hash what I thought was a pretty straightforward definition that we could both agree on, but it could be me assuming non-response as agreement (can't quite recall).

the simplest definition of a jew is a member of an ethnicity.

from wiki:
An ethnic group is a group of people whose members are identified through a common trait. This can, but does not have to, include an idea of common heritage, a common culture, a shared language or dialect.[1] The group's ethos or ideology may also stress common ancestry and religion, as opposed to an ethnic minority group which refers to race.[2][3][4][5] The process that results in the emergence of an ethnicity is called ethnogenesis. Some ethnic groups are marked by little more than a common name.

[/quote]

I am well aware of the sources you regularly use. IN many instances their use is in the legitimate criticism, indeed you are highlighting the fact that often, there is a faction within either Israel or the jewish community at large that agrees with your criticism.

Consider your indiscriminant use of the term jews to describe a particular Israeli political position and your refusal to actually define the term zionist when you use it in multiple contexts. To generalize on the one hand when condemning or offering criticism, then turn around and use a particular individual or organization that is included in your generalization to support that condemnation/criticism on the other is a tad contrarian and certainly circular.

Of course you would use them if you felt they would support your argument. Hatred does not and has never prevented exploitation to achieve a particular outcome. Using those you hate has been a hallmark of human history.

Not sure about half, but you do use jewish sources often.

Funny that. Yes, you don't generally use the typical off the wall hate sites, but particularly when we debate the holocaust you have repeatedly used jew hating sites, and quoted people like duke, barnes, etc.

You have also had the AZL logo as your avatar. You cannot tell me with a straightface that david duke's site is not a jewhating racist destination.
You also used a link to the stormtroopers anthem as your sig.
I suppose you weren't really being serious, eh?

presstv is an iranian propaganda outlet, which you use with regularity.
RT.news is a russian site that hasn't quite gotten over the fact that the cold war is over and over the top propaganda doesn't play all that well anymore (although they do have some serious reporting).

well for one thing, you cannot cite a single post of mine that could be described as Islamophobic. Nor could you find one that in anyway is racist. Bigotted yes, but not racist. I have readily admitted my specific bigotry of certain human ideas - other bigots, racists, nazis, commies, religious fanatics of all denominations (yes including the ultra orthodox jew loonies). I have one specific bigotry of human perversion - paedophiles. I hardly think that my bigotry could be described in any way as Islamophobic or racist.

I have some admirers and allies in the community, but I would hardly call them a posse.

Don't buy that one at all. actual reason is as you state below.

Well, considering that you would be lying if you accused me of racism or islamophobia, I don't doubt it. Of course I don't doubt that like me you have been penalized on more than one occasion for merely telling your perception of the truth.

you like begging the question, wot?

sorry, but I do not understand this grammatical mess. Could you perhaps use other words and a single tense to convey your meaning a little more efffectively? thanks.

 

Jonsa, what exactly characterises the posts of those whom you classified as Jewhaters?

For instance, do you believe that I am a Jew-hater? I, of course, do not see myself as a Jew-hater, but as a seeker after the real facts. I cannot see that as being hatred. As I pointed out to HBendor, I have had very close relationships with Jews both in South Africa and in Europe, and my wife has Jewish blood. I see a vast difference between Jewry, which I believe is a religious/racial classification, and Zionism, which is a political sect.

I take issue with the political dogma, not with the DNA.