A thread to discuss HOW AMERICA WON THE WAR.

(My bold)

Not possible, B-29s were never combat aircraft in ETO during WWII. After, yes; but not during. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-29_Superfortress Maybe the story is referring to B-17s?

We did accidentally move USSR airplane design forward - they kept all B-29s that crashed/landed/diverted to Soviet territory from raids on Japan. They released or allowed our crews to escape, but designed a couple of Tupolevs from the captured aircraft.

 

Did you know, at war's end, Russia had 491 divisions compared to America's 94? In fact, the Russians had almost as many divisions in the field as all Allied forces and Germany combined. (The UK had 31; Germany 375)

Sure, America won the war. On numbers, without the Russians, the US forces would have been soundly thrashed.

 

(My bold)

Yah, the Soviets kept constituting military units, no matter how many people, equipment, terrain they lost. It must have been very disconcerting for the Wehrmacht to keep winning on paper, yet losing as their logistics networks stretched tighter & longer, & finally failed altogether under attack from reconstituted USSR forces, guerrillas, partisans, tactical air. And of course Generals Mud & Winter took a hand. The Wehrmacht had excellent intelligence on the Soviet positions - & why not? The Wehrmacht & Luftwaffe had trained in the same areas, land & airspace. The Soviets were complicit in helping the Nazis re-arm, in return for cash & in-kind finished goods. If the Soviets were foolish enough to cut a deal with the Devil - well, they soon discovered that Hitler was perfectly capable of turning on his allies of the moment.

Yes, the US produced civilian & military goods, equipment, armaments, ships, artillery, aircraft, tanks & on & on. We flooded the World with our goods. We also mobilized our military - never to anything like the extent that Japan, Germany, USSR did, but we fielded a good force, well-equipped & with World-spanning logistics. Yah, we produced, transported & delivered goods to any allies who showed the least inclination to fight the Axis powers.

Could the Allies have won without the USSR? It would have been very close - Germany & the Soviets suffered massive losses of men & material on the Eastern Front. The war would have dragged on & on, & there's no telling how vicious the fighting would have become. If the war ran past May 1945, we would have likely used nuclear weapons in Germany.

This misses what the Soviets would have done instead. If the Nazis hadn't invaded, the USSR might have stayed out of the war. More likely, they would have fallen on Manchuria & driven Japan out of China - & taken the ports & any valuable real estate for themselves. Hard to say. Stalin apparently never felt secure enough to attack Germany except in self-defense.

 

You actually made me laugh just because you're talking all serious in the joke section, like it actually matters.. So you don't get shot.. But will you please laugh now because I can't think of anything funny and I don't want to get shot by that German weasel!

 

That muskrat isn't going to shoot you. It lives in a far more gun-regulated country than we do

Sieg heil, usw.

 

Here you go, my basis for my comments on diet and POW/civilian survival rates in Japanese camps:

Retribution, Max Hastings, c 2007 - p. 351 - Captivity and Slavery (in Japanese POW camps)

"Vic Ashwell, captured on the Sittang River in Burma as a twenty-two-year old lieutenant with the 3rd Gurkhas, agreed with Peat: 'I was prepared to eat anything. I volunteered for anything to get out, to keep body and mind ticking. When I saw younger officers just lying there, I'd urge them: "Come on, get on your feet!"' Ashwell noted that the first to die were private soldiers from humble backgrounds, malnourished in childhood during Britain's depression. Such men possessed few bodily reserves."

(My emphasis)

As to potatoes - yes, the starch would have been filling. But without proteins & essential oils/fats, you would have run the risk of contracting one of the protein or vitamin-deficiency diseases. Pellagra was common among slaves in the US South, when they were fed mostly corn mush with little protein. We can hope that the regular ration contained enough protein & oils/fats to keep body & soul together.

 

Germany was on the run before the US put any boots on the ground anywhere. The Russians had stopped the Wehrmacht and moved massive resources against them in the East. The British were about to deliver the coup de grace to the Afrika Corps in North Africa.

Then the Yanks finally turned up.

 

Ve don't shoot zee funnies, squirrel. Ve larfable

Oh dear, you not mean to make zee funnies?

 

The Yanks kept the Brits and the Soviets going, no doubt about it.

The Yanks also raised hell for the Nazionalsozialisten in Afrika.

All while raising much greater hell for the Nihonjin in the Pazifik!

 

SORRY!!!

My Mistake I mean B-17's as I was also posting about JAPAN and I accidentally had my head stuck on Nukes and B-29's.

Sorry again.

AboveAlpha

 

As always it is a little more complicated than that. A major turning point of the war in North Africa was down to a division of Australian and New Zealand troops who held of successive attempts by the Germans and Italians to capture the crucial port of Tobruk. Rommel, now royally screwed because he could not secure supply was ripe for the picking

 

First of all your post is misleading as unlike the Soviet Union 45% of all U.S. Troops and thus total numbers of U.S. Troops exist as 45% of total Combat Strength Kept In Non-Divisional Formations (regiment, battalion, etc.

Russian Divisions exist in different lower numbers compared to U.S. Army Divisions which themselves exist in number between 10,000 and 30,000 per division.

But that really doesn't matter as by the end of WWII the United States Military had began on a small scale what would end up being and culminating into today's U.S. Military's Ideology of fighting a WAR.

Such U.S. Military Ideology is specific to enabling all U.S. Soldiers with the absolute BEST logistic support and as well giving such U.S. Military Personal the VERY REAL PROBABILITY that even FRONT LINE U.S. FORCES KNOW that even though they are on the front lines and FIRST to go into battle....because they are equipped with the absolute BEST AND MOST CAPABLE MILITARY WEAPONS SYSTEMS EXISTING....and because THE U.S. MILITARY exists COMPLETELY AS AN ALL VOLUNTEER FORCE....as U.S. Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen being all volunteer and as well some U.S. Military branches such as the U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force requiring possible Sailors and Airmen to have at LEAST AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE FROM AN ACCREDITED U.S. MILITARY APPROVED COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY in order to be allowed to JOIN....this allows the U.S. Military to exist as an entity where many HIGHLY QUALIFIED RECRUITS can be found.

Any recruit who might have an Associate or Bachelors Degree who attempts to join and is accepted into the U.S. Navy or U.S. Air Force and this recruit attempts to become a Naval Aviator or USAF Pilot or any of the NUMEROUS USAF Positions existing where extremely High Technology Weapons Systems are being used and achieves their goal....NEEDS to be a person of high capability as the USAF does not recruit just ANYONE and allow them to become a B-2 Stealth Bomber Pilot or Crew Member as such aircraft costing the U.S. Taxpayer roughly $2 BILLION EACH....will have Pilots and a Crew that consists of EXTREMELY CAPABLE AND WELL EDUCATED PEOPLE!!!

Same thing can be said for a $200 MILLION EACH F-22 Raptor Pilot or any of the vastly numerous USAF Aircraft.

Since the U.S. Navy will have 13 Nuclear Carrier Battle Groups operational by 2017....11 Nimitz Class and 2 Ford Stealth Class....which exist as floating CITIES that require a large percentage of their 5,500 Sailors and Aviators to have a very high level of education compared to any other existing Nations Naval Ship Crew.

The thing is when a U.S. Army or Marine TANK CREW are sitting on the FRONT LINE....they KNOW....even though they will be the first into battle they have an EXTREMELY HIGH PROBABILITY of not just surviving the war but winning it!!!

Although in Iraq such U.S. Tank Crews were not up against Russian Tank Crews they WERE up against the current MAIN BATTLE TANK OF RUSSIA as the Upgraded T-72 which exists as the Tank Russia has the most of as the T-72 exists in several thousands and all more modern Russian Tanks only exist in a few handfuls.

Any number of Russian Upgraded T-72's...now being called T-90's...LOL!!....have absolutely ZERO CHANCE against a much smaller number of U.S. Tanks but now days the U.S. Military has several thousand more M1A2 Abrams Tanks fully operational that the lessor by several thousand in number Russian T-72's.

Any U.S. Tank Crew is going to feel VERY SAFE AND COZI sitting in their air conditioned M1A2 Abrams even if they were on the front line against a larger number...no longer possible...of Russian T-72's.

As was shown during the Invasion of Iraq....when a nations Military is using a smaller but extremely more capable force against another nations Military and when the U.S. fights a war as a totally integrated military force unlike other nations who do not fight as an integrated military force....such incredible realities as NOT A SINGLE AMERICAN ABRAMS TANK WAS DESTROYED BY ANOTHER IRAQI SOVIET MADE TANK DURING THE WAR.

This had never happened before.

And such a thing happening just SHOWS how much of a difference exists between the Russian Military's Weapons Systems and those from the U.S.

If it were ME having to chose...YOU BET YOUR ASS I WOULD CHOSE AN ABRAMS TANK!!!

AboveAlpha

 

The Brits also kept the Russians going.

And the Brits paid the US with their money after keeping democracy alive with their blood. Until 1942 when the Yanks turned up to get thrashed at the Kasserine pass. I have to admire the British for standing up to Hitler while the Yanks stood by. Selling them stuff. How typically American. How could one trust the Yanks in any serious stoush when they did nothing while a free world was in danger.

Which is why we Germans have quietly developed our own nuclear weapons.

Meanwhile Obama waffles on about about freedom and liberty as thought it were just another convenient commodity. Bush of course didn't believe in it at all.

 

German's quietly developing Nuclear Weapons!!??? LOL!!!!

Remember I have spent long periods of time in many areas of both one time East and West Germany.

You German's are watched VERY CAREFULLY by us and you would not be allowed to manufacture a GLOW STICK that is Chemically Self Luminescent unless we allowed you to do so.

Germany TO THIS DAY....still has a large number of U.S. Forces and Intelligence Agents within it as well hosts some of the largest and most important U.S. Bases in Europe which are NOT EVER GOING TO BE REMOVED...EVER.

AboveAlpha

 

So how did you manage to detach it? Crowbar? Did you try the melted-butter trick, so you don't get those marks on your skull? At least we know where the contamination came from!

 

(My bold)

No worries, everybody's entitled to misremember or misspeak from time to time. I looked up the B-29 deployments just to make sure - turns out I remembered correctly. Yippee!

 

If Britain hadn't declared war against the Nazis then Europe would be completely empty of Jews and the occupied nations little more than vassal states.

And we were the only ones who could have stood up to Hitler because the USA wasn't going to get involved directly and the USSR was initially allied with Germany.
Speaking from 1939-41 of course.

There's no doubt that we couldn't of won it without help from the allied nations but if we persisted on our own even with the dominions then it would have led to a stalemate.
The war may of cost us the empire and led to us taking a 2nd place in global affairs but it was worth it.

 

Ok but that doesn't actually make for a comparison between US and UK captives
Unless there is something else in that book.

True but that wasn't the only thing that was eaten.
Rations weren't simply doled out but simply limited ones purchases. If you could find food from other sources then you'd have extra which is why we had the "dig for victory" campaign.

Well yes there was enough to keep people going in those terms.
It was insufficient for people that were still growing or pregnant women. My mother actually had a related problem which was solved by simply straightening one of her toes.

 

Where were your Kraut buddies, buddy? Oh, that's right - goose stepping around, Sieg Heiling and generally endangering the free world.

 

Your post is the funniest.

 

A model picture of american alliance...

PS. Guys, you are somewhat both right. Germans don't trust US government and they want to get free of the military occupation and agents' humiliation. Since Obama is listening and peeping after german leaders and since Victoria Nuland proposed to "kcfu the EU" it is quite obvious that the relations between US and EU are far from being friendly. This would result of course into political economic and hopefully not a military struggle.

German nation aferall is a great nation. Yes, they made a terrible mistake puting their greatness above all. Even such underdeveloped russians managed to help germans to put away this illusion. But with the time passing the paycheque is being closed. My contemporaries from Germany no longer are responsible for what have happened in the past. The same should be recognised by americans some day. They will not be able to sustain modern empire forever. And it's much better to accept a loss once it becomes obvious rather than fighting for the worst of evils. I am pretty sure that the nation of Shiller and Goethe deserves much more freedom than it has now. I still believe that germans have a lot to contribute to the history of the mankind. Germans have lived without the US and they will be able to live without the US assistance. Once the time comes of course.

But this is the topic about times of Hitler! I hope you were not serious telling about F-22 and M1A2 telling about the WW2? )))) I am prepared to hear that it is a fact that american army was already flying stealths that time.

 

Clint Eastwood was a secret Nazi infiltrator when he was younger.

Years later, Clint was returned to his US Marine Corp recon unit after winning the Congressional Medal of Honor in Korea, and ultimately saved America at Heartbreak Ridge, after disobeying an order from his commander:



The same commander who would eventually become a part of a terrorist group:



in which group, the one on the far right, would become a notorious American psychopath.

 

I am not aware of any of the Commonwealth nations who took part in the war having any regrets over their actions. Some such as India came out as true winners because of their involvement. At the time it was something that just had to be done.

 

(My bold)

Yah, I'll keep an eye out in future.

 

I don't think we have any regrets.
But yes there really was no reasonable nor moral cause to stay neutral and to have done so would have callously discharged our responsibilities.

I don't think that in the short term that India did ok courtesy of the partition. The British view on Indian independence would of had it go down the dominion route and perhaps averted the disaster of partition.

But long term things have improved in India although the same issues still exist.