A thread to discuss HOW AMERICA WON THE WAR.

I thought it was an interesting aspect of history and I hope to hear more about it from you in the future.

 

Well I think India was a little different to most of the other Dominions. They had a history of controlling their own destiny unlike Canada Australia etc. So the imperative was a lot stronger for them, and the war was a great bargaining chip. Given they ultimately built the largest volunteer army in history they definitely kept their side of the bargain

But yes the partition was very clumsy process - The speed at which it was orchestrated is frightening

 

If you mean that India had established states prior to European influence well then yes.
Effectively Australia and Canada were virgin lands with no pre existing state.
The funny thing is about the Empire is that many people assume that it was all largely run the same way but actually every territory was different both in terms of it's character but also in it's management.

I do agree that India did have it's military service to bolster it's independence although there were other factors.

I think that if Britain had come out of the war financially sound then maybe we could have averted partition and granted independence or dominion-hood at a later more calmer time.

 

Unlike some members here...not you....I have no problem whatsoever admitting I made a mistake. LOL!!!

My Bad!!!

AboveAlpha

 

Back when Reagan demanded and then Gorbachev allowed the Berlin Wall to be torn down...BOTH Reagan and Gorbachev spoke to each other about WATCHING THE GERMANS.

Gorbachev basically asked Reagan now that East Germany was no longer going to be under Soviet rule and that the Soviets would no longer have the responsibility of keeping an eye of their half of Germany which they had been so religiously watching since after WWII....WITH VERY GOOD REASON.....Gorbachev asked Reagan if the United States would keep an eye upon the now reunited East and West German's and Reagan said that he understood that keeping an eye upon the Herman Nation had fallen upon the United States and that Reagan PROMISED GORBACHEV AND RUSSIA.....that Germany would NEVER be allowed to once again pose a threat to the world nor would the United States EVER allow Germany to once again become a major military power that could again attack the Soviet Union.

Such a thing was a VERY REAL CONCERN of Gorbachev and other Soviet Leaders at the time.

The reality is Germany was responsible for started two WORLD WARS within the 20th Century and the United States Military Doctrine is to NEVER AGAIN allow Germany to rise Militarily to any point it could once again become a THREAT to it's neighbors and the world in general.

Germany is NOT ALLOWED to develop an OFFENSIVE German Military and it is not allowed to develop Nuclear Weapons.

As well Germany cannot develop and Navy beyond a certain number of German Naval Ships....cannot develop and build Military Aircraft beyond a number.

Many American Military Forces will exist in Germany pretty much FOREVER....and Ramstein Air Force Base which is a MASSIVE USAF Base in Germany will also pretty much exist there FOREVER.

Now it is FUNNY YOU of all people should bring this issue up as if anything the ONLY thing Russia is just as uncomfortable with as U.S. Military Forces being close to the Russian Boarder in Germany......would be LARGE NUMBERS OF GERMAN MILITARY FORCES no longer under American and NATO control being massed on the Russian Boarder.

AboveAlpha

 

Yes thats very true, and I think that lead to a lot more co-operation both among the Commonwealth nations and Britain. As far as the Empire is concerned I think Australia would have gone down the same path regardless. Australia felt a deep sense of betrayal over Singapore, and the later redeployment of the Australian forces without permission did a lot to force Australia to think less of a British future and more of an Australian

I do agree that India did have it's military service to bolster it's independence although there were other factors.

I think that if Britain had come out of the war financially sound then maybe we could have averted partition and granted independence or dominion-hood at a later more calmer time.[/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE]

Although many Aussies don't like to talk about this or admit it....Australia Military Thinking and Alliances changed after Singapore from being a Military Doctrine that was Britain Centric to a Aussie Military Doctrine that is now UNITED STATES MILITARY CENTRIC.

Australia has agreements in place that results in the entire Island/Continent of Australia being placed under the United States Military's Defense Umbrella.

Because unlike any other Nations Military on Earth the U.S. Military fights wars using an INTEGRATED SERVICES MILITARY....Australia and any other U.S. Ally must also have such Command and Control and Communications Systems built into all Australian Aircraft, Tank and other Weapons systems.

Lately the issue over whether Australia should purchase American F-35's or another Fighter/Attack Aircraft is raging and although if Australia purchased instead either F-18 Superhornets or Typhoons they would buy a very good aircraft in either case but by not purchasing F-35's Australia would put itself in a position that conflicts with how both it and the U.S. Military have been sculpting and designing an Australian Military that must take into account being able to coordinate Combat Operations with the U.S. Military for the foreseeable future at the highest Defensive and Offensive Capability it is capable of.

Since Australia doe not have the money to buy ANY Military Aircraft in large numbers it must take into consideration not only the CAPABILITY but the SURVIVABILITY of any Fighter/Attack Aircraft it purchases as well.

Australia must also take into consideration that it's only possible Military Adversaries of any real concern are located in the Pacific ocean rim areas being CHINA, NORTH KOREA and to a much lessor extent Russia.

Australia's consideration of AIRCRAFT SURVIVABILITY without a doubt favors purchasing the F-35 as even though both the much CHEAPER F-18 Superhornet and the Typhoon..ie...Eurofighter are excellent planes since the F-35 is STEALTH....Australian Air Force Pilots would be able to engage and target Chinese, Russian or North Korean Aircraft and destroy them long before any Chinese, Russian or North Korean Pilots were even aware they were being targeted.

This capability would bring an enormous level of survivability to the Australian Air Force...an Air Force that cannot afford to purchase large numbers of Military Aircraft.

As well all F-35's are equipped with State of the Art Avionics and Fire Control Systems which as well can linked up with U.S. Military Integrated Service Supercomputer Systems which would allow Australian Pilots to engage an enemies Air Force and target an enemies assets in conjunction with the U.S. Navy, Air Force, Army and Marines so as to not double or triple target enemy weapons systems and assets as well as allowing Australian Pilots to link up with other Australian Military Services.

When it comes right down to it Australian and American Military Doctrine in the Pacific is at the moment well coordinated and well practiced as purchasing the F-35 will only make it better.

AboveAlpha

 

A lot of that had to do with the emotional debt we owed the US after WW2 It also became obvious we shared strategic concerns in the Pacific. It is a good partnership in that what Australia lacks in physical resources is made for by the vast areas the Americans could hide sensitive listening equipment in. Even without the F35 I think Australia could handle itself in any regional conflict that could erupt. We also have a cute little trick called Over the Horizon Radar. Officially it has a range of 3000 kilometers, however during testing they were picking up ground traffic at Hong Kong and Singapore airports

If a global conflict erupts with the like of China or Russia, I would much rather have an integrated service with the US, than go it alone lol

 

Well...here is the thing.

The U.S. has plans to use B-1B's and even perhaps B-52H's modified to carry HUNDREDS of Long Range Extremely High Tech. U.S. Air to Air and Air to Ground or Ship

Missiles and the F-22 and F-35's that are a part of an Air Force of any Nation fighting with the United States Military will be able as part of the Integrated Service System...be able to target and direct such U.S. Bomber carried Missiles to destroy an enemy's aircraft.

This concept specifically had Australia's Air Force in mind in the event say Australia had to quickly fend of a massive Chinese Air Force or Navy Attack....as the U.S. Air Force could send 2 or 3 B-1B's traveling at Supersonic Velocity to Australia and once such B-1B's were flying the small number of Aussie F-35's and their pilots could quickly target those Missiles carried by the B-1B's and launch them and guide them to target.

Thus 10 Aussie F-35's are capable of using their STEALTH and without detection scan, target and direct and guide close to 1000 U.S. Long Range Air to Air Missiles and DESTROY 1000 ENEMY AIRCRAFT.

THAT is why for Australia purchasing the F-35 is so important.

AboveAlpha

 

There were may Germans opposed to Hitler. As there were many Russians opposed to Stalin.
But they were living in a militarised police state and there was little they could do.

What has come out of it is one of the most democratic forms of government in the world, one of the most energetic economies in the world, and a core presence in European affairs. We have also learned not to fight wars, especially America's.

But of course we have developed zee bomb. There's no knowing what France will do.

 

That German Government you stated was one of the most democratic forms of government in the world did NOT come about because of Hitler and the Nazis.

It came about when the UNITED STATES wrote the West German Constitution and then when the CCCP lost the Cold War to THE UNITED STATES East Germany WAS ALLOWED TO BE REUNIFIED WITH WEST GERMANY.

To even insinuate that GERMANS had absolutely ANYTHING TO DO with the current form of Democartic Government you now have is FALSE!!!

AboveAlpha

 

These are guys are both incompetent dreamers. Gorbachev in particular. I wish Gorbachev was executed or at least prosecuted for the crimes against the state, which he was oblidged to protect. Unfortunately Putin is too weak and likes compromises... But maybe there is really no use in prosecuting an old and helpless guy without any positive influence.

If Germany wins the economical clash the agreement will be changed. Less than a 100 years ago there was a different standard of proportion. Britain had 100%, Germany and France together with US had not more than 60% of british fleet and Italian somewhat a quarter. But this agreement didn't last FOREVER. Right?

They will remain there only since germany hasn't recovered after the WW2. Once it completely recovers there would be no need for Germany to tolerate the soldiers of different state at their territory.

)) Please don't make such an insult. You really believe that I would be scared by chinese army which country is expanding a mutual economical ties with Russia and Germany which is our major trade partner (after former soviet reps). And I should believe that US that has only 3% of our trade relationship at best and is always boycotting any russian goods with either jackson-vanick or magnitsky or boycott after the refusla of recognition of american driven kievan junta... Do I really look stupid enough to believe that generous americans have surrounded Russia with its bases in order to protect (sic) Russia of a potential invasion from every side?
You have already mentioned that you have already protected Russia against nuclear attack from Ukraine and Georgia. Recently you told that China is about to make war with Russia. Now you tell that germans are dreaming to quit drinking bavarian beer and come to Siberia to drink all of the russian vodka...

I will tell you what. I have 2 real friends. The guys that I can ask to come and they will be here no matter what. And they know that I will come to them no matter what anytime. With both of them I had a fight to blood...

 

I think you have misunderstood my post.

Regardless of what issues the U.S. and Soviet Union had we always both agreed when it came to keeping an eye on Germany.

When Gorbachev realized the Soviet Union was collapsing and could no longer handle keeping a lid on East Germany...many Soviets made certain to tell Gorbachev to discuss the situation with Reagan because even 40 years after the end of WWII both the Soviets and U.S. were STILL uncomfortable with allowing Germany never mind a newly unified Germany to grow stronger unchecked.

Because of this the United States PROMISED the Soviet Union which would shortly become Russia....that we would keep an eye on Germany and have American Troops based in Germany until at least the beginning of the 22nd Century.

Now as far as the rest of your post I think you would do well to understand that the United States did NOT want to be placed in the situation of sending actual U.S. Troops in number to Poland.

Only 600 will be sent at first but if Putin does not come around another 19,400 will be sent and we are already sending U.S. Forces into the Balkans and a decision whether or not to send American Military Advisers into the Ukraine as well as a plan to begin to sell the Ukraine advanced American Weapons Systems is currently being discussed.

The ONLY reason we are doing this is because we were FORCED to do this when Putin decided to start eying the Eastern Ukraine.

This is a NO WIN SITUATION for both Putin and Russia.

NOTHING GOOD can come of this as far as Russia is concerned and the STUPIDITY of thinking that any attempt by Russia to either intimidate it's neighbors or invade them will somehow not result in U.S. Military Action of further surrounding and containing Russia is beyond me.

AboveAlpha

 

Well it took it's time I mean it wasn't until 1986 that Australia legally changed it's obligations to Britain.

Well Singapore was a difficult one. I mean Britain was stretched because of Europe so it couldn't really send ships and additional troops to the far east.
And of course the fall of Singapore meant that Britain was reduced to fighting in Burma.

Funny thing is that we were close to winning Singapore despite having numerous disadvantages.
When it comes to betrayal you'd think that Gordon Bennett would have featured just as infamously.

Australia is also something that is incredibly easy to defend just because of it's sheer size.
Even Japan scrapped plans to invade the Northern Territory due to enormous number of men that would be required to garrison it.