You are one of those who think that contraception is 100% aren't you?? Do you know the failure rates of contraception? - - - Updated - - - Hmmm - I live in Queensland - abortion is illegal here - well at least on the books it is This means though that a 14 year old who was raped and ended up pregnant had to go to court to allow for an abortion Do you want to tell me that was OK??
I don't have a duty to protect life.....where does that come from ? HOW would you know if a fetus "wants" to live and "evolve".......do they send you messages with their non-existent brain?
Abortion is a cultural issue and should not be a legal one. Though the practice is repugnant and barbarous it should not be illegal.
all life wants to live and evolve, no matter if it was a product of rape, pedophilia, or incest. you have a duty to protect life that wants to live and evolve, in civilized countries where it is a law of the land.
Which practice? That of taking some pills early in a pregnancy so that it is almost like a delayed menses? Or are you thinking of the "partial birth abortion" that was so mischaracterised and is now illegal?
Again, what is the source of this mandate? God? The law in the US does not mandate that we must protect "all life." However, in some states in India it is against the law to kill a cow (so I suppose that is a start). I think most of us would agree that all persons have an interest in protecting other persons, but in your attempt to take the moral high road (protecting "all life") you are overstating your position. Even if you are a vegan and take extreme efforts to avoid harming all life around you, that is your personal religious belief and you have no right to force that belief on others. The zef is not capable of thinking about what it wants (or does not want) until its brain is activated (at birth), so it is not yet a person.
My gawd the drama I don't have a duty to protect life.....where did you get that? What "law of the land ? HOW would you know if a fetus "wants" to live and "evolve".......do they send you messages with their non-existent brain?
The OP question is about abortion rather than "when life begins". Abortion is entirely a private matter for the woman concerned and her doctor. The doctor, in some states, has to deal with legislation that restricts post viability abortions to only when the life and/or health of the woman is threatened otherwise the procedure is 100% legal nationwide. The fetus does not feel any pain during an abortion when it is performed as routine medical procedure. No doctor is required to perform an abortion. No women is required to undergo an abortion. Abortion is a legal choice that only women get to choose. There is no legitimate basis for denying women their reproductive rights. All attempts to deny abortion rights are based upon theist beliefs and disinformation. Banning abortions won't stop them but it will result in increased poverty, rises in crime rates and higher taxes as those unwanted children become adults in our society. The best way to reduce abortions is to provide the most effective contraception free of charge to those most at risk of becoming pregnant. Because of fetal abnormalities and other pregnancy related health problems it will be impossible for the need for abortions to disappear entirely. Perhaps the above is can be summed up as abortion is a fact of life that should be handled in the most humane way possible for all concerned while doing everything We the People can to reduce them without infringing on the rights of women.
Since a fetus has no legal standing under the Law of the Land prior to being "naturally born" the SCOTUS ruling in RvW provided the state with the right to regulate abortion procedures with the following restrictions. Abortions are legal throughout pregnancy but the state may choose to deny them in the 3rd trimester post viability as long as they allow an exception if the life and/or health of the woman is in jeopardy.
By that illogic those who want to outlaw abortion must accept personal responsibility for at least a million unwanted children each and every year since that demanding that they must be born.
Life in prison for 1st degree murder is not anti-life, it is punishment for a crime. How do you plan to accommodate adding a million women per year to the prison population?
When the child begins to grow in the mother and then is destroyed. The morning after pill I am comfortable with. That is just another form of non harmful birth control. If we truly want to end the practice of unnecessary abortions then we have to do it by changing the culture where it is seen as acceptable. Outlawing it will not stop it and in fact is too totalitarian for a proper republic. A women needs to decide on her own that a abortion is not the proper option. That will take a carefully crafted information campaign, local positive reinforcement, and guidance from community leaders. You cannot legislate morality. But you can mold public opinion.
Can you eliminate poverty 100%? Because until you can do that there will continue to be unwanted children who will be a burden on their parents and on society. What is your plan to eliminate poverty?
You cant, if society decides that abortion is no longer acceptable then society must be prepared to adapt to that situation. That means more community outlays of funds for unwanted children, increased education on birth control, private and public programs promoting the two parent and extended family social contract. Also children are not a burden on society they are the life blood and future that needs to be molded. The aging of our country is proof of that.
If you cannot eliminate poverty then outlawing abortion will only make poverty an even larger problem than it already is. How much higher are you willing to raise taxes to pay for the welfare and education of these unwanted children? How much higher are you willing to raise taxes when some of them become criminals and you need more cops, courts and prisons? Are you willing to have tax rates up to 90% on the highest incomes to ensure that We the People will provide for the General Welfare of an additional million more citizens each and every year?
You are being facetious but so be it, in your mythical world where the poor will run rampant and pop out 15 babies per woman then yes we will increase taxes to 110%! Since being poor means a women loses all sense of responsibility and self control if society as a whole chooses for abortion to be wrong! After all poor women have multiple abortions in their life currently correct? Do you think so little of women? Or we can assume that the modern woman in the United States is in general a responsible adult capable of making logical decisions about her welfare. You seem to have forgotten that I included education and promotion of family safety nets and community outreach as well. Society must decide if it will promote a world where abortion is not the solution or it will not change.
That you can't answer some perfectly simple and straightforward questions is not my problem. Women from all strata of society have abortions and 65% of them are Christians. However the BURDEN of unwanted children will fall most heavily on the poor who can least afford to raise those unwanted children. Most of them are forced to work at more than one job and just don't have the means to provide for additional children. Therefore your utopian society will need to raise taxes to support these unwanted children. Please answer the questions above as to how high you are willing to raise taxes because your society will fail otherwise and turn America into a 3rd world nation.
As high as is necessary because society as a whole would have decided that children are valuable not a burden. But let's be honest it is not taxes and such you are concerned with. It is the idea of women having a CHOICE in whether they want to have an abortion. Why does the idea of people deciding that abortion is not the answer so frightening?
Ironic! Apparently you have failed to appreciate that it is you that is frightened by "the idea of women having a CHOICE in whether they want to have an abortion".
Not liking abortion is different than curtailing the freedoms of women. I do not like smoking but I would never support a law banning it. But I would advocate for people to choose not to smoke. Am I not allowed to disagree with an act and wish for people not to do it, yet still think is should be legal.
Or the one that always stumps them... Should pregnant women be followed around to make certain that they are adhering to government ordered, determined and enforced prenatal care so that if they are not they can be charged with child abuse?
poor women are neglectful with babies, they need the government to encourage them to make the right decisions for the best care of their baby. of course that means the government saving the babies life from an abortion in the first place. if the government were given adequate funding and organized properly, government oversight would work well in this area as in any other area such as capitalism, economics, etc...
But what you advocated in post #89 above was a campaign of essentially brainwashing women into not having abortions rather than allowing them to chose of their own free will. Yes, you can advocate for women not to have abortions but to attempt to brainwash them into believing that abortion is wrong is going too far. The comparison to smoking is a fallacy. There are no redeeming aspects to smoking but it should still be legal for adults to choose to smoke. Abortion does have redeeming aspects when it is a matter of life, health or even just the quality of life for those concerned. And yes, abortion has another redeeming aspect when it comes to taxes.
Changing society's attitudes on things you disagree with is not brainwashing it is how a society is supposed to do things. Also which aspect of it do you disagree with? The promoting stronger family units? The promoting the use of birth control? The increase of community outreach to at risk mothers? More support for unwanted children? As to smoking it is a perfect example of the state interfering in things that is none of their concern. What you put into your body or take out for that matter is not any of the states business.
