Access to heaven?

For those who believe there is an afterlife, and that it is necessary for a person to accept Christ in order to gain access to "Heaven", what became of the folks who lived before Christ - or those who never heard of Christ during their lifetimes?

Option A: They were damned.
Option B: They were put in some form of waiting room until the "end of days", at which time they'll get to make a decision (which should be easy given that evidence will be apparent).
Option C: They had to make a decision upon death (once again, easy given the evidence of a deity was presented to them).
Option D: ??? Is there another option I haven't covered?

If the answer is anything other than "option A", wouldn't access to heaven have been easier for folks who never heard of Christ?

 

I'm sure God has it covered. In the best possible way that man can't even imagine. The Bible is a personal message to you. And you have access to it. You have the ability to present an attitude regarding it....

 

The OP is a question. You've replied to the OP by dodging that question entirely.
Do you have an answer (opinion), or not?

 

My opinion is that God has it covered. What ever God decides....

Logically, the Bible and it's message is relevant for those who can read it and make a choice to heed it or not.

 

I think everyone gets what they perceive.

 

Insh'allah

What do you mean god has it covered?

If your not willing to answer why are you on this thread?

 

That's basic Christian doctrine. It's covered in Romans 2:5-20 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 2:5-20&version=TLB;CEV;MEV;MSG;NLT

If you're good you will get a break. If you're bad you will swim in the lake of fire.

 

does that mean you don't care?

if say, your local police started carting away thousands of people in your city, with no explanation, would you satisfy yourself with the idea that they must have a good reason for doing so? or would you care enough to try and find out why, then acting (even if just to retract your support of the police force) if the reason turned out to be sinister?

 

Christ said, "I am the Truth,... and the way and the life."
Truth existed before 32AD, but Jesus was personifying the ideal for us.

He said, "Before Abraham, I am."

So the people who believed in Truth prior to Christ will be in heaven that will gradually come to be in the future, here on earth, when Truth reigns and men are "born again" into it.

 

On the "dead before Jesus" question, the usual Christian apologia is that "During his 3 days dead, before the Resurrection, Jesus went to Hell and redeemed those who turned to him."

On the "dead without ever hearing of Jesus" question, it becomes more problematic.

If the Christian apologists says "God gives them a pass after death and lets them into Heaven, because they never got to hear the Gospels".....then that contradicts clear Bible passages that say the ONLY way into Heaven is by Jesus.

Plus it opens up the "If them...why not these people" argument. For instance suppose a person in Scandanavia in 500 AD hears a Christian missionary ONCE talk of "Jesus" and "Heaven"....but then never hears it again and only hears about "Odin" and "Valhalla" until they die.....does that Viking get a pass?

Or what if the local Christian missionary in rural China in 1880 is a sleaze who uses his position (or support from a pro-European local warlord) to force sex from local peasant girls, while teaching them the "love and mercy of Jesus"....and the girls and their families reject the "message of Christ" and remain Buddhists or Confucians or Taoists.....do they "get a break" or do they go to Hell?

 

Since Christ is a state of being, a state of consciousness, those that did not have that state, never found it while alive, were reborn back into this cycle. Buddha had Christ, for Christ is a realized, enlightened consciousness. That is why only through Christ is anyone saved. If you are not in the same state of consciousness as he was, as Buddha was, as Krishna was, as Lao Tzu was, you die, and return. Get another chance. Eventually all will be saved from the cycle of birth and death, and then these fragments of the WHOLE, melt back into the WHOLE. Perhaps then it starts all over again, in a new universe. This gets rid of the ideas of a GOOD God, damning a soul for all eternity in perpetual, horrible suffering. That never made any sense to a thinking being anyways, and is a tool to control people, to get them to so what you want them to do. When all other tools fail, you pull that one out of your back pocket, out of desperation.

 

Nah.
Science tells us that we come back unless our species has failed to adapt to the Reality of the environment.

Man is in the process of learning that Truth is what he needs in order to survive and avoid extinction.
If man does not stop Wars and become sexually prudent,... he will become extinct.

That is to say, only people wise enough to have become Christians will still be here in the future.

 

Option E: God is not obligated to adhere to the logic system created by man.

 

He is incompetent, as the bible says he can't even defeat "chariots of iron"....heck a pilot in a new US Army attack helicopter could defeat "chariots of iron", but apparently the invisible friend is not a competent as a helicopter pilot is.

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His answer is that he generally doesn't want to have to think for himself, he's rather sub that out to someone's invisible magic friend in the sky...thinking is just too darn hard.

 

I see that that Jesus fellow does not believe in giving people second chances. Kind of like prison reform, say for hell-bound Hindus/Buddhists, etc.....nope Jesus doesn't believe in all that compassionate nonsense, just burn 'em, no second chances!

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Option E should read: god gave us logic (apparently), but we are not supposed to use it, because logic quite often goes against what the Bible is teaching.

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The bible says that god gave the rulers their power, basically, so no, he couldn't really question the gov't w/out questioning the authority of god. Sad.

 

So, your answer is "I don't know"... got it.

The bible having a message is really not relevant to this, given that I'm specifically talking about those who never had the opportunity to read it.

 

Could have, should have, would have.....Where is the logic in such a statement from you? Abuse of logic goes against the 'Bible'. Are you declaring that you are the 'end all' of interpreting what others 'should' do? You asked for other options and I gave you one. So instead of declaring what that Option should read, accept it as another option like you asked for. There are probably millions of options available that you did not cover.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by "what they perceive"?
Is this another way of saying "what they believe they deserve"?

 

Agreed, but it doesn't answer the question. If "being good" requires accepting Jesus, what happened to those many people that never had the opportunity to even hear about Jesus? Did they go for an eternal swim?

 

This does not answer the question. What "Truth"? Are you saying that a "personal relationship with Christ" was not needed? How would individuals who never received the Christian message know about the "Truth" you speak of? Were they penalized for the message being unavailable?
If your assumption is that the message was available (to every Native American, every Aboriginal Australian, etc), please demonstrate how.

 

This is an interesting perspective.
Can you validate that Buddha had Christ, rather than the other way around? After all, your beliefs seem more in line with Buddhist teachings than any Western religious dogma - particularly given your rejection of eternal punishment (which is clearly dictated in the Bible).

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You are asserting that our system of logic was created by man. Please "convince my mind" that this is the case.

 

Is "logic" mentioned in the 'Bible'? No! When was "logic" introduced to man? Right around the time of Plato and Aristotle? Why no mention of it before that time?

 

Are electrons mentioned in the Bible? No! When were "electrons" introduced to man? Right around the time of JJ Thompson? Why no mention of it before that time?
Does this mean man invented the electron?

 

As a matter of fact (in the same fashion as they are recognized today), electrons were mentioned in the 'Bible'. "Job 38:25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;"


The remainder of your question are irrelevant in view of the passage of scripture cited.

 

Are you claiming that the sub-atomic particle known as the electron is, recognized today as a lightning bolt?
I'm not even sure what to say about that level of ignorance.