Africa is rebelling against de facto colonialism

You can pull a quote out of the clouds and make any absurd conclusion you like but if you follow what I said (and what it applies to) you will find that you are speaking rubbish. Stating facts does not make you pro-Communist but you're trying to say that it does.

 

Uh-huh, you dont support communism, yet believe Russia was the good guys at that time?

 

1). State what time you are referring to.
2). I will give you a straight answer.

 

Vietnam, and now despite them severing communism...well not all of it as they still rely on their government for alot of personal nessessities.

 

Vietnam: Absolutely.
Now: Without a doubt.

Conclusion - How does that make me pro-Communist? You are very confused.

 

During Vietnam it does. Russia was promoting communism at that time. They wanted to eliminate capitalists.

 

You are wrong, so wrong. I was a soldier in Vietnam 66-67. I know what we were during because I was taking part in it. It was bad. It is true that I didn't understand the background and the motivation behind it but I knew what we were doing was bad. Since then I learned all of that so I not only know what we did was bad but I understand the reasoning behind it was also bad. In other words, there was no justification for what we did.

You make very absurd conclusions.

1). Russia/Communism DID NOT "want to eliminate capitalists". Throwing the US out of Vietnam is not the same thing at all.

2). I don't give a fiddler's hangnail if the Russians were Communists or Evangelists. We were the bad guys they were the good guys.

 

In order to avoid decision paralysis, it was best you had as little info as possible.
Im of the notion that war is bad no matter who is involved, but rooting for the communist is a bridge too far for me.

Back to this resent praise of Russian involvement, while that does not make you a supporter of communism, it does mean you absolve Putin for his latest atrocities. And that is simply worse then supporting communism anyway.

 

So you are retired ... 70 years old plus

 

Condemning the bad guy and praising the good guy has no bearing on political conviction whatsoever. You say I was (am) praising Communism, I never even mentioned Communism. The problem is yours not mine.

1). First of all, Russia is not Communist so the idea that I am a Communist supporter is outrageously ridiculous.
2). Secondly, you speak of "Putin's atrocities" as though it is fact so in essence you are putting words in my mouth.
3). What are these alleged "atrocities" you speak of? Did he cheat on his taxes? Would you like to be specific or are you going to push the button on the MSM ventriloquist bulk slander teleprompter?

BOTTOM LINE: You called me out for being pro-Communst but you're not doing very well at proving it or even supporting the idea. In addition to that you are calling me a liar.

 

Yes.

 

No, i did not call you out for being communist, i explained the relevance of why mentioning Russias communist ties was a factor in praising them and warranted the question.

The Ukraine invasion and all the lives lost on both sides of the conflict, those atrocities caused because we disarmed Ukraine. Putin couldnt afford what he wanted so tried to take it. Its now costing Russia more.

Are Russians better off now? That atrocity.

 

I never even mentioned Communism. You did.

You are equating war with "we disarmed Ukraine" as the reason or cause. Coo-coo!

Says who? The CIA? Aren't they the same people who said they have proof positive that there were thousands upon thousands of WMD's in Irak?

You are seriously lacking in proof and motivated evidence. You're just skipping over and around mountains of contrary "facts" that are available to anyone who wants to know. I have more to say on that subject if you can take it.

BOTTON LINE: From the very beginning of this dialogue you have been insinuating that I am a pro-Communist supporter and that my responses have not dissuaded you from that premise. How are you doing, so far?

 

I concluded and conceded you dont support communism a few posts back. Remember where i said supporting putins current agenda is worse...that post.

 

You may beg to differ, but you just did precisely what I said you would - handwave away the work of historians who actually study these subjects in depth and from multiple perspectives because they don't pander to your ideological prejudices. You don't want history, you want polemics that agree with you. As a result you will only ever find the right answer by accident.

As for your place of residence, how is that relevant? I have lived my entire life outside the US, does that mean my opinion is better informed than yours? I have also travelled to 4 continents and dozens of countries, including Vietnam & Cambodia. I actually spent a considerable part of my time in Vietnam carefully observing (including taking notes) on the way the Communist regime chooses to remember & present the war. I also obtained numerous translated books during that visit which present the Communist Vietnamese perspective. Additionally, I have lived for decades in a neighbourhood full of Vietnamese refugees & their families - precisely the people your version of the Vietnam War deliberately ignores. In short, I havew actively sought perspectives that challenged my views and amended my views accordingly.

I'll put this simply Scott. Yet again you are opining on a topic where you have the functional equivalent of no knowledge. All that you do know is from sources so biased that they are worthless as factual accounts. Thus you find yourself rambling on about tungsten & rubber as if these had the slightest impact on US decision making (they didn't). You have conditioned yourself to simply ignore any material that doesn't fit neatly into your worldview. The fact that every credible historian of the war fits into that category doesn't seem to worry you. It should.

 

30,000 Rally in Niger to Support Military Takeover. 'We Must Be Independent!'


The US, France and England have been installing puppet governments in developing countries for years. When the people of those countries try to oust the imperial powers, the US media spin it as a struggle between communism and democracy with the nationalists of those countries being the communists and the imperialists being the democracy. I fell for it for a long time.

Wake up Americans! We are the bad guys.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chomsky+american+imperialism
https://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/AfricaWatch.html

 

Deals depending on their human right's record, China and Russia couldn't care less.

 

China helped build railroads, coal and hydro power plants in Sudan in projects that cost 100's of millions of investing, to industrialize that country. Something the west did not do in the 100's of years of violent oppression. And if anything, China doesn't want a war going on in Sudan, since it's bad for business.

While the legacy of Zimbabwe is that through thug colonial rule they made it so in the 1930's that them white farmers were given all the lands. Seems rather obvious that this racist theft got overturned by them. Russia and China got nothing to do with that entire mess. At "worst" it was China who sold them aquicultural equipment.

 

The human rights record of the West in Africa is full of atrocities. And they went on with the horrors of concentration camps 20 years after the end of WWII. Culprits were given full pardons and are still very much alive today. Victims were given spit. The poverty in a country like Niger where all hell broke loose, is due to utterly bad economic deals with the west and the corruption the west help out to support. It seems far more obvious that they want their country to be 1st priority and not what kind of human right's records China or Russia has elsewhere.

 

You reap what you sow. I reckon if the Regime changes, I doubt they will be better off. There will be mass corruption and mass crime. Won't be long after the revolt and regime change before the new leaders are decapitated and civil war ensues. I doubt there will be any economic gains as I am sure there will be more poverty and those who take advantage of the weak.

 

I paraphrase now for the sake of simplicity and to minimize being misunderstood by too much jumbled info. But if you think I've left out something of importance please feel free to mention it in your reply and we'll discuss it.

You have failed to recognize the basis of conflict in Vietnam from the Vietnamese perspective. Oh, I know that you think you do because the above paragraph is jam packed with self back slapping. So, what is it I’m trying to tell you? Yes, (and I remind you that I am talking about the Vietnamese's perspective). Christian vs. Buddhist. Is it really necessary for me to explain the situation? How the French gave the Catholic Vietnamese privileges and how the Buddhists got doodle-squat? You do know this, right? Or not? But the Vietnamese (those who were inspired by Communism) kicked French azz. Why Communism? You should be able to answer that question if you’ll be so kind and truthful. After all, you’ve led us to believe that you are immune to (how did you say?) “hand wave away the work of historians who actually study these subjects in depth” and also “don't pander to your ideological prejudices“. You “want history, not polemics that agree with you“, right? I'll put this simply, bigfella. Yet again you are opining on a topic where you have the functional equivalent of an echo chamber. And the “decades” long “neighbourhood full of Vietnamese refugees & their families” … Catholics are they?

What is being discussed here? What is the main purpose of this thread? The West, right, and how it has raped as much of the world as they can. Naturally, the story of Vietnam crops up because … well! …. the US (in particular) ravaged the fuuuuk out of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos by ILLEGALLY invading, occupying and shooting everything in sight. And on the other side, we have the passive Soviet Union & China. You’ll allow the term “passive” in comparison, right? So there it is: clean and simple. The US … the “bad guys”. Russia & China … the “good guys”. Are you having any problems with this so far?

 

The long-term forecast for Africa isn't all that great.

https://www.un.org/africarenewal/ma...019/global-warming-severe-consequences-africa

The IPCC expects Central Africa to see a decrease in the length of wet spells and a slight increase in heavy rainfall.

"West Africa has been identified as a climate-change hotspot, with climate change likely to lessen crop yields and production, with resultant impacts on food security"

Africa? It's not the future.

 

They may need to migrate en masse to better climates. I propose the vast empty, warming lands far to the northeast of their home, out between crowded Europe and crowded China.

 

For years? Are you trying to make a joke? That's been going on since long before WW II.

That's right. That's how fascism works. Not only the US but don't forget that Stalin was the biggest Fascist of his time yet he considered himself a fervent anti-Fascist!

We all did. How could it be avoided? I'm going to stick my neck out and say that the majority of adults eventually see the truth for what it is so do not feel shame for what you (we) didn't understand. Anyway, some governments are masters in the art of false propaganda. The US is probably the best.

It takes much more than opening your eyes in the morning in order to "see". Americans, in particular, do not like being told they are wrong. It's baked into the propaganda with things like "everybody knows" and "you're either with us or against us" and McCarthy-ish "Un-American" attitudes & activities.