Al Qaeda Plants Its Flag in Libya

WTF?
Last time I checked you were the one cheerleading obama's warmongering in Libya.

But ya, I'm the blood thirsty one.

How is this even relevant?

Ummm k, where did I ever state that these were their motivations?
Oh wait, I didn't. Moving on.

Congrats, you've respwed Osama Bin Laden's talking points. But thanks anyway Captain Obvious.

Ummm, kinda being selective aren't you? Anti-American sentiment runs deep thru the entire Muslim world from North Africa to Indonesia.

Who said they didn't?

 

I was right! I called it!



We knew this was going to happen already though. we just have to out fund the oposition now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...kiLeaks-cables-warn-of-extremist-beliefs.html

Time for Step 2 of the US foreign government reform handbook:

Pour millions into a party that is pro U.S. corporations. Democracy is a plus but not required. Dictatorship is not ideal but acceptable.

 

There is NO reason to pour money into anyone that is pro-US corporations.

Hess, Marathon, TOTAL, ENI, BP, Occidental, Dutch Shell, Conoco Phillips all have operations in Libya that generate lots of income to Libya.

Libya needs the revenue to import 95% of their food.

 

I have never read the words of Osama Bin Laden. So if he said the same things I heard from regular old non terrorist everyday folks in Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran....that just means he has political strategists that tell him what appeals to average Muslims. But that doesn't mean you have to be a terrorist to think that.

The problem with people like you...and correct me if I'm wrong....is that you've allowed Bin Laden to make you into a self terrorizing person. If we spend all our time and treasure rooting out low life criminals hding in caves...we've allowed them to win.

We should not let 911 dictate how we lead our lives, and run our military, and you can do that without forgetting those who dies, and without sacrificing our feeling of security

Stop being so afraid of Muslim terrorists.....you should be more afraid of criminals in your own town.

I still think you seem really hostile.

 

Who said all muslims are terrorist? I certantly did not. You seem to be dogging and deflecting your hardest, why is that? Have you ran out of excuses to peddle for the current administrations forgien policy blunder in Libya?

I guess I will have to correct you since you are wrong, with yet another assertion. We've played right into Osama's hands once we went into Afghanistan, and stayed for ten years. That's exactly what they wanted.

Explain what 9/11 has to do with Libya, if you remember, that's what this thread is about.

I don't think one has to be deathly afraid of Muslim terrorists, too point out that the Obama admin helped put a Muslim terrorist in charge in Libya.

I think you are either very dishonest, or you're in way over your head.

 

Okay....maybe we got started off on the wrong foot.

Let me make my position more clear.

I do not agree with the military actions in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya.

I did not vote for Obama, and I am not a liberal.

The worst part of OBL's terrorist victory on 911 wasn't the 3000 lives lost, it was what it caused the US to do since.

What I know about Muslims I learned from living under the same roof with them for four years, and I don't approve of people making judgements on Muslims who've never lived amongst them.

........now

What made you think I'm excusing the action in Libya...and exactly what am I dodging or deflecting?

 

Hmmm....... It is unlikely that there are any groups of any people, anywhere on the globe that could be lumped into a neat stereotype. There are no homogenized cultures that can be judged with a broad brush determination.

That goes both ways. Good or evil.

 

That's exactly what I've found. I've lived in two places that are constantly being stereotyped by Americans based on what the media tells them....Mulsims in the middle east, and the Chinese.

In both places, there is roughly the same social formula IMO.....for every 10 people, there are 6 people just trying to live a law abding and peaceful life, there is 1 loser, 1 leader, 1 saint, and 1 criminal. I have found variations of course...but this applies to Republicans, Democrats, white people, black people, gay people, straight people...maybe not Washington politicians...but everybody else.

 

Of course, claiming Americans are constantly stereotyping is a stereotype in itself........

The beauty with the stereotyping of the middle eastern Muslims or the Chinese.......is the knowledge (in my experience) that they are also stereotyping us........while not burdened with the very American notion of political correctness. LOL

 

Right....because 25 wrongs make 25 rights.

Or....I know you are but what am I?..........jk

The people of the middle east and the people in China I knew, hated Americans a lot less that the Americans I know who hate Muslims and Chinese hate them. The rest of the people just about everywhere I've traveled are not afraid of the US either. Actually most places are very hospitable to Americans.

But that's just my experience...It kind of wierds me out trying to figure why you'd be questioning it.

Is it bad that the world, or the other politicial party in the US, isn't monsterous?

 

I made no suggestion anyone was "afraid" of the US. Only the observation that people in many countries stereotype, have bias, and prejudices, and are not constrained by U.S. styled P.C. guilt.

No questions. Just a fact.

 

That is most definitly NOT a fact.....all the countries I've been to have the same sensetivities.......

The anti PC crowd in the US is really made up of mostly white males who feel stifled regarding what they can say. They seem to feel like it's going out of their way to not say the "N" word, or tell racial or sexual jokes. The fact of the matter is......being politically correct is really what the rest of the world calls being polite.

In China, or Turkey, or anywhere else I've traveled to in Europe...people are mindfull not to say offensive things to others. It is only America where conservative media has a campaign in place to exploit that feeling of being stifled many old white guys have, and some white women too.

America is a sheltered place, and it's that shelteredness that allows Americans to have some really strange ideas about social interaction in the rest of the world.

btw......who told you the rest of the world doesn't have their own version of PC?

 

Totally disagree. It is absolutely a fact in just about every country I have worked in. From Indonesia to M.E., to Africa and South America. It is a condition of human nature apparently.

As far as your strange notion of a "white guilt" conservative exploitation conspiracy....... you are engaging in the very topic we are discussing. LOL

I had a notion it would not take too long for latent bias and bigotry to rear it's ugly head and your apparent guilt of aspects or segments of what is considered American has had a profound effect on you.

I understand, I share a shame of certain segments of American society. Specifically, much of our self proclaimed progressive ideology, but I also understand that they are part of the American mosaic. Their hypocrisies and bigotries are baked into the cake like it or not.

Totally agree about America being a sheltered place. I believe all should have an opportunity to deploy to a desert or a jungle for months at a time to help people who have nothing for a contrast and perspective of just how good we have it.

P.S. I absolutely acknowledge that there are regional versions of P.C. particularly in Western nations.

 

Fair enough....we have different empirical experiences....

It's just that the friends I have, whom are prone to conservatism, express thier racial resentments more frequently in private, and tend to be more resentful about the whole PC thing, compared to my airy fairy progressive friends.

I...as usual...am in the middle...over analyzing things...and making nobody happy. People like black and white....and I love a mystery, or conflicting data.

An intellectually strong person....should always be on the lookout for times when they could be wrong....and that should be always

 

LOL Fair enough.

 

Yeah, these are the same giddy Islamo-goofballs who announced that Libya is going to make Sharia the law of the land: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...law-for-libya/2011/10/24/gIQATDrhCM_blog.html

You've got to give Obama all the praise and the responsibility for everything he does... and surely this Libya adventure of his was worth all of us rich Americans spending over a billion dollars helping to make sure that all of this happened, resulting in what we see in Libya today.... So, you're bound to want four years more of this kind of thing... right?

 

Well, as tensions escalate in the region with Iran/Israel/Syria, we will have to see what adverse impacts the Obama's destabilization of Libya create.

 

That's so unfair..

..how can you saddle Obama with the whole state of affairs in the middle east. When it comes to Libya....when something bad happens...it's all Obama's fault now!.....not Cameron...not Zarkozy...but all Obama!

If something good happens, like the OBL killing, it's the continued George Bush policies, and the SEALs.....

Man....that guy can't catch a break. He takes over amidst two unfinished wars, and a wrecked economy.....and then within 2 years....the GOP has succesfully convinced righties to blame him for everything!...and righties started the wars, and were in charge when the housing bubble burst!....man..... sucks to be Barry.

And BTW........how is Libya less stable without Q'adaffi...a man who was said to have sponsored terrorism worldwide.....in fact, wasn't there this big Pan Am plane incident?...I don't remember clearly...hmmm

 

Unfair?..... I don't think so but lets break it down.

Obama became POTUS on Jan '09. He inherited active wars with Afghanistan, and Iraq, one proxy war with Iran, and then a shadow war in many M.E. countries including Northern Africa utilizing Predators and SpecOps.

Despite promises to the contrary, the Obama embraced many of Bush's foreign policies even doubling down on others. GITMO remained open, and rendition continued using other countries.

A Zogby International Poll from July shows a sharp decline in American popularity in 6 M.E. countries from Bush to Obama. Here is the poll:

http://aai.3cdn.net/5d2b8344e3b3b7ef19_xkm6ba4r9.pdf

So M.E. opinion of U.S has declined under Obama but worse, his approval numbers have sharply declined in Israel as well.

He has had opportunities, namely the Green revolution in Iran but he squandered it. The policy with Syria is unclear, and the Libyan adventure isn't looking good with missing anti-air missles, and fundamental extremists taking over.

Sorry, but Libya was a destabilizing move, and had zero American interests within.

It may not be fair, but the 'leading from behind' doctrine in the M.E. isn't doing the Obama and the U.S. any favors.

 

I have many opinions regarding this post I'd love to share with you...but I must first take a comprehensive look at that Zogby poll...because often times....conservative media will take the answers like "the middle east is growing unhappy with America"...and say things like the middle east is growing unhappy with Obama....Rush is the worst at that.

At any rate...thanks for the witty reparte' and gentlemanly bantor.....and I shall return.

 

Irony (noun): When war on terrorism advocates attack collective military action in Libya because it "cost too much money for no reason".

Pot calling the kettle black, much?



You realize for one month in Afghanistan we spend 4 to 8 times as much as the cost of the entire Libyan intervention, yes? Not saying we should have done it but let's not be hypocrites now.