America -- WTF Is Going On?

akphidelt · Aug 18, 2011

Stupidsheep said: ↑

The reason the majority of American idiots don't know about these people and information is because it is not taught in schools. It's not taught on purpose. Children are indoctrinated to know nothing else other than to perpetuate consumerism. Acquire money and then spend it. That's it. It helps the cycle continue.

The media's job is to keep citizens arguing over republican and democrat issues, with the end result being no resolution, thus the status quo remains the same for centuries.
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This is ridiculous. Of course consumerism is needed for economies to grow and of course since we know that, we have put in measures to influence the flow of money (aka inflation). Basically we reward people who use their money and punish those who don't. Good or bad, we are still the largest economy in the history of mankind, so obviously it has worked.

As for politics, it has nothing to do with the "status quo". Almost all levels of democracy from prom queens, student president's, neighborhood association president's, governors, senators, all the way to POTUS... comes down to two sides wanting power and a group of people migrating to one side or the other to form a larger power to get their side to win and hopefully get a piece of the pie.

What you are describing is simply a conspiracy theory. With $14 trillion at stake and the top position in the world, of course the media will be devoted to selling their side since that is how they make their lucrative amounts of money. It has nothing to do with the Rothchilds or the "Iluminati"... it is simply how it works.

Til the Last Drop · Aug 18, 2011

Told you you should have said globalists.

Joe Six-pack · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

In the last decade or so, to me it seems America is sliding down the poop shute.
Click to expand...

Every ten to fifteen years there is a financial crisis.

Government is more a part of the cause than a potential solution.

Stupidsheep · Aug 18, 2011

Sorry last drop, I like to bring the facts, as difficult as they are to accept for some.

Sooner, I'll look into that book. In the mean time, check out these writings from mr. Altheide:

http://www.public.asu.edu/~atdla/

http://www.asu.edu/feature/includes/spring05/readmore/altheide.html

http://www.cjc-online.ca/index.php/journal/article/download/208/114

Stupidsheep · Aug 18, 2011

akphidelt said: ↑

This is ridiculous. Of course consumerism is needed for economies to grow and of course since we know that, we have put in measures to influence the flow of money (aka inflation). Basically we reward people who use their money and punish those who don't. Good or bad, we are still the largest economy in the history of mankind, so obviously it has worked.

As for politics, it has nothing to do with the "status quo". Almost all levels of democracy from prom queens, student president's, neighborhood association president's, governors, senators, all the way to POTUS... comes down to two sides wanting power and a group of people migrating to one side or the other to form a larger power to get their side to win and hopefully get a piece of the pie.

What you are describing is simply a conspiracy theory. With $14 trillion at stake and the top position in the world, of course the media will be devoted to selling their side since that is how they make their lucrative amounts of money. It has nothing to do with the Rothchilds or the "Iluminati"... it is simply how it works.
Click to expand...

I've read your posts and quite frankly, you are a waste of time. Judging by your last paragraph you have absolutely no understanding of the bigger picture.

Good day to you.

I realize this post was condescending, however, conversing with some can be frustrating. Forgive me, I do not know everything but I have presented a door, now it's your choice whether you open it and walk through or not.

akphidelt · Aug 18, 2011

Stupidsheep said: ↑

I've read your posts and quite frankly, you are a waste of time. Judging by your last paragraph you have absolutely no understanding of the bigger picture.

Good day to you.
Click to expand...

Lol, I'm just a realist who calls it like it is. Acting as if the Rothchild's and the Rockefellers have complete control over us is looney toon territory. The bigger picture is simply right in front of your face, not in some underground Fraternity.

Stupidsheep · Aug 18, 2011

If you were a realist you would realize that money rules everything. The whole reason our nation is in such despair is because of people's lust for money and power which stems from greed.

Money does have control over the majority. That is a fact. It is written in books, sang in songs, and played out daily as the rat race. The people who have created this are the ones who have given Europe and the USA paper fiat money in place of a tangible item such as gold.

If you know the history of how paper money came to replace gold as an IOU, you would put all of this together and comprehend it.

Awryly · Aug 18, 2011

Sooner28 said: ↑

You ought to do a thread about New Zealand's low crime rate, poverty rate, etc. and how awesome kiwis are .
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Ought I?

I thought that was already well known?

akphidelt · Aug 18, 2011

Stupidsheep said: ↑

If you were a realist you would realize that money rules everything. The whole reason our nation is in such despair is because of people's lust for money and power which stems from greed.

Money does have control over the majority. That is a fact. It is written in books, sang in songs, and played out daily as the rat race. The people who have created this are the ones who have given Europe and the USA paper fiat money in place of a tangible item such as gold.

If you know the history of how paper money came to replace gold as an IOU, you would put all of this together and comprehend it.
Click to expand...

I perfectly understand how paper money came about to replace gold. And what do you mean our nation is in such despair? Where do you think our nation would be right now if we didn't have 310 million people who want more money? The wealthy/capital owners will always be in control over macroeconomic finance. The banking system will always be controlled by bankers.

The difference between you and I is you think they are making decisions against the good of the people. I think everything they have done in the evolution of banking and economics is to create the biggest economy possible, which is dependent on people like you and I spending money.

And the other thing that people fail to consider is that, where would we be with out the banking system and why? How would a private sector with out central control over monetary policy be able to function better than a central control? None of this is proven in a mathematical analysis. It is simply people that do not have much wealth believing in some magical Utopian society where they would be much better off. I really don't get what people expect in life.

Regardless of what system we choose, those that do not bring much to the table will be the bottom feeders, while the capital owners/wealth owners will be in control.

Molchmeister · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

In the last decade or so, to me it seems America is sliding down the poop shute. Since the last global financial crisis the slippery slope has become steeper, the down grading of the credit rating is an indicator. With all of America's wealth, resourses, technology etc, this shouldn't be happening.

Irrespective of which side of the political fence you graze on, the problems point to gross mismanagement.

Without turning this thread into a "we are better than the rest" or Democrat vs Republican slinging match,, WTF is going on?
Click to expand...

Debt,..... a single word... but ultimately the decline of America. While most don't realise it debt has become a cultural problem.... intrinsic to our economic system. Our economy MUST stop growing because the growth we've experienced over the last decade was growth based on money consumers hadn't even earned yet. The Federal Reserve has kept interest rates artificially low for the last decade. The people (those still working) have to deleverage. Our grandparents didn't trust banks because they lost their savings. You and I shouldn't trust banks because we (most of us) owe 5 years salary to them.

Businesses are sitting on hoards of cash,....Why?, Once upon a time businesses used their cash flow and savings to make payroll and benefits,....pre-crash businesses used lines of credit, when the line of credit dried up so did the business, many failed then.

Examine the books of many of the "profitable", corporations in America and realise that they're financed for 100+ times what they bring in each year. One bad quarter for anyone = bankruptcy.
Molchan

Surfer Joe · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

In the last decade or so, to me it seems America is sliding down the poop shute. Since the last global financial crisis the slippery slope has become steeper, the down grading of the credit rating is an indicator. With all of America's wealth, resourses, technology etc, this shouldn't be happening.

Irrespective of which side of the political fence you graze on, the problems point to gross mismanagement.

Without turning this thread into a "we are better than the rest" or Democrat vs Republican slinging match,, WTF is going on?
Click to expand...

I find this article touches on some of the reasons for what you see.

For the past two centuries and more, life in Britain has been governed by a simple concept: tomorrow will be better than today. Black August has given us a glimpse of a dystopia, one in which the financial markets buckle and the cities burn. Like Scrooge, we have been shown what might be to come unless we change our ways.

There were glimmers of hope amid last week's despair. Neighbourhoods rallied round in the face of the looting. The Muslim community in Birmingham showed incredible dignity after three young men were mown down by a car and killed during the riots. It was chastening to see consumerism laid bare. We have seen the future and we know it sucks. All of which is cause for cautious optimism provided the right lessons are drawn.

Lesson number one is that the financial and social causes are linked. Lesson number two is that what links the City banker and the looter is the lack of restraint, the absence of boundaries to bad behaviour. Lesson number three is that we ignore this at our peril.

To understand the mess we are in, it's important to know how we got here. Today marks the 40th anniversary of Richard Nixon's announcement that America was suspending the convertibility of the dollar into gold at $35 an ounce. Speculative attacks on the dollar had begun in the late 1960s as concerns mounted over America's rising trade deficit and the cost of the Vietnam war. Other countries were increasingly reluctant to take dollars in payment and demanded gold instead. Nixon called time on the Bretton Woods system of fixed but adjustable exchange rates, under which countries could use capital controls in order to stimulate their economies without fear of a run on their currency. It was also an era in which protectionist measures were used quite liberally: Nixon announced on 15 August 1971 that he was imposing a 10% tax on all imports into the US.

Four decades on, it is hard not to feel nostalgia for the Bretton Woods system. Imperfect though it was, it acted as an anchor for the global economy for more than a quarter of a century, and allowed individual countries to pursue full employment policies. It was a period devoid of systemic financial crises.

Utter mess

There have been big structural changes in the way the global economy has been managed since 1971, none of them especially beneficial. The fixed exchange rate system has been replaced by a hybrid system in which some currencies are pegged and others float. The currencies in the eurozone, for example, are fixed against each other, but the euro floats against the dollar, the pound and the Swiss franc. The Hong Kong dollar is tied to the US dollar, while Beijing has operated a system under which the yuan is allowed to appreciate against the greenback but at a rate much slower than economic fundamentals would suggest.

The system is an utter mess, particularly since almost every country in the world is now seeking to manipulate its currency downwards in order to make exports cheaper and imports dearer. This is clearly not possible. Sir Mervyn King noted last week that the solution to the crisis involved China and Germany reflating their economies so that debtor nations like the US and Britain could export more. Progress on that front has been painfully slow, and will remain so while the global currency system remains so dysfunctional. The solution is either a fully floating system under which countries stop manipulating their currencies or an attempt to recreate a new fixed exchange rate system using a basket of world currencies as its anchor.

The break-up of the Bretton Woods system paved the way for the liberalisation of financial markets. This began in the 1970s and picked up speed in the 1980s. Exchange controls were lifted and formal restrictions on credit abandoned. Policymakers were left with only one blunt instrument to control the availability of credit: interest rates.

For a while in the late 1980s, the easy availability of money provided the illusion of wealth but there was a shift from a debt-averse world where financial crises were virtually unknown to a debt-sodden world constantly teetering on the brink of banking armageddon.

Currency markets lost their anchor in 1971 when the US suspended dollar convertibility. Over the years, financial markets have lost their moral anchor, engaging not just in reckless but fraudulent behaviour. According to the US economist James Galbraith, increased complexity was the cover for blatant and widespread wrongdoing.

Looking back at the sub-prime mortgage scandal, in which millions of Americans were mis-sold home loans, Galbraith says there has been a complete breakdown in trust that is impairing the hopes of economic recovery.

"There was a private vocabulary, well-known in the industry, covering these loans and related financial products: liars' loans, Ninja loans (the borrowers had no income, no job or assets), neutron loans (loans that would explode, destroying the people but leaving the buildings intact), toxic waste (the residue of the securitisation process). I suggest that this tells you that those who sold these products knew or suspected that their line of work was not 100% honest. Think of the restaurant where the staff refers to the food as scum, sludge and sewage."

Finally, there has been a big change in the way that the spoils of economic success have been divvied up. Back when Nixon was berating the speculators attacking the dollar peg, there was an implicit social contract under which the individual was guaranteed a job and a decent wage that rose as the economy grew. The fruits of growth were shared with employers, and taxes were recycled into schools, health care and pensions. In return, individuals obeyed the law and encouraged their children to do the same. The assumption was that each generation would have a better life than the last.

This implicit social contract has broken down. Growth is less rapid than it was 40 years ago, and the gains have disproportionately gone to companies and the very rich. In the UK, the professional middle classes, particularly in the southeast, are doing fine, but below them in the income scale are people who have become more dependent on debt as their real incomes have stagnated. Next are the people on minimum wage jobs, which have to be topped up by tax credits so they can make ends meet. At the very bottom of the pile are those who are without work, many of them second and third generation unemployed.

Deep trouble

A crisis that has been four decades in the making will not be solved overnight. It will be difficult to recast the global monetary system to ensure that the next few years see gradual recovery rather than depression. Wall Street and the City will resist all attempts at clipping their wings. There is strong ideological resistance to the policies that make decent wages in a full employment economy feasible: capital controls, allowing strong trade unions, wage subsidies, and protectionism.

But this is a fork in the road. History suggests there is no iron law of progress and there have been periods when things have got worse not better. Together, the global imbalances, the manic-depressive behaviour of stock markets, the venality of the financial sector, the growing gulf between rich and poor, the high levels of unemployment, the naked consumerism and the riots are telling us something.

This is a system in deep trouble and it is waiting to blow.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/14/larry-elliott-global-financial-system

P. Lotor · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

In the last decade or so, to me it seems America is sliding down the poop shute. Since the last global financial crisis the slippery slope has become steeper, the down grading of the credit rating is an indicator. With all of America's wealth, resourses, technology etc, this shouldn't be happening.

Irrespective of which side of the political fence you graze on, the problems point to gross mismanagement.

Without turning this thread into a "we are better than the rest" or Democrat vs Republican slinging match,, WTF is going on?
Click to expand...

We're in the bust phase of a monetary bubble, and instead of allowing the reallocation of resources to their most productive use our government is propping up the malinvestment with easy money. That is wtf is going on. We are living Maynards legacy.

macaroniman · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

But who manages the managers? There must be some form of control.
Click to expand...

http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...wall-street-crimes-20110817?link=mostpopular3
read this and here is your answer.

IrishLefty · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

In the last decade or so, to me it seems America is sliding down the poop shute. Since the last global financial crisis the slippery slope has become steeper, the down grading of the credit rating is an indicator. With all of America's wealth, resourses, technology etc, this shouldn't be happening.

Irrespective of which side of the political fence you graze on, the problems point to gross mismanagement.

Without turning this thread into a "we are better than the rest" or Democrat vs Republican slinging match,, WTF is going on?
Click to expand...

The recognition of corporations as persons has certainly raised a lot of issues.

IrishLefty · Aug 18, 2011

Stupidsheep said: ↑

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_nwo01.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati

The reason the majority of American idiots don't know about these people and information is because it is not taught in schools. It's not taught on purpose. Children are indoctrinated to know nothing else other than to perpetuate consumerism. Acquire money and then spend it. That's it. It helps the cycle continue.

The media's job is to keep citizens arguing over republican and democrat issues, with the end result being no resolution, thus the status quo remains the same for centuries.
Click to expand...

Many of your points are valid friend, however once you bring these conspiracy theories to the table you lose credibility. Serious objectivity proves these theories are ridiculous.

James Cessna · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

In the last decade or so, to me it seems America is sliding down the poop shute. Since the last global financial crisis the slippery slope has become steeper, the down grading of the credit rating is an indicator. With all of America's wealth, resourses, technology etc, this shouldn't be happening.

Irrespective of which side of the political fence you graze on, the problems point to gross mismanagement.

Without turning this thread into a "we are better than the rest" or Democrat vs Republican slinging match,, WTF is going on?
Click to expand...

I'm glad you asked, lizarddust.

Here is exactly what is going on!

You are correct when you say, "With all of America's wealth, resourses, technology, investment capital, etc, we shouldn't be sliding down the poop shute"!

After three years, Barack Obama and George Bush have become quite identical in their policies and their differences have become very minor! They ignore Congress when it comes to their war policies and they both think they can spend their way back into national economic prosperity. Obama, like Bush, has increased the power of the NSA, he has broadened the scope of warrantless wiretapping of Americans and both have done nothing to scale back and limit the abuses of the Patriot Act. Obama is clearly the greatest authoritarian and one of the phoniest and most insincere presidents we have ever had.

The liberals in this group cannot bring themselves to admit Barack Obama is a liberal elitist. Obama has been given everything all of his life. Other people (William Ayers) have even written his books for him. Obama has never understood the principles of hard work, personal responsibility, getting a good education and ownership of homes and small businesses offer the pathway to prosperity.

jmpet · Aug 18, 2011

I used to be a Republican and yes, I voted for Bush twice. But the problem we face today goes back to Bush. Bush and his tax cuts and handouts to all Americans... Republicans love cutting taxes, and Bush did a lot of that.

By the time it was Obama's turn, we were in bad shape. Just go back and watch essentially any political documentary that was made in 2005-2008 and you will see the problem.

James Cessna · Aug 18, 2011

jmpet said: ↑

I used to be a Republican and yes, I voted for Bush twice. But the problem we face today goes back to Bush. Bush and his tax cuts and handouts to all Americans... Republicans love cutting taxes, and Bush did a lot of that.

By the time it was Obama's turn, we were in bad shape. Just go back and watch essentially any political documentary that was made in 2005-2008 and you will see the problem.
Click to expand...

You are very mistaken, jmpet.

Barack Obama has been our president for 32 months. Very soon it will be three years. He now "owns" this economy. He can no longer blame George Bush for his mistakes.

We can thank Obamas inattention to the debt crisis for these latest salvos against our 401 (k) savings plans! If the carnage continues to occur on Wall Street, no one will have any money left to spend and invest and help the economy to grow and put unemployed Americans back to work!

tblount · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

But who manages the managers? There must be some form of control.
Click to expand...

Answer: no one... it's left open to the highest bidder so just check the list of top campaign contributors and don't know overlook the influence of foreign countries who hold our debt.

It may be difficult to admit but its a failure of the constitution to establish a forth branch. Of government to monitor waste fraud and abuse that has taken 200+ years to become exposed.
The framers probably thought voters/ citizens have would demand honesty and purity

P. Lotor · Aug 18, 2011

tblount said: ↑

Answer: no one... it's left open to the highest bidder so just check the list of top campaign contributors and don't know overlook the influence of foreign countries who hold our debt.

It may be difficult to admit but its a failure of the constitution to establish a forth branch. Of government to monitor waste fraud and abuse that has taken 200+ years to become exposed.
The framers probably thought voters/ citizens have would demand honesty and purity
Click to expand...

Lol, a fourth branch of government to monitor waste fraud and abuse in government, like that would ever work!

Condottiero · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

...WTF is going on?
Click to expand...

Think of it as being Pelted To Death By Marshmallows. Sure, the first few are entertainingthe next hundred thousand are not so badbut after a while it gets deadly.

Here are just a few of the marshmallows:

Perpetual election cycles without the benefit of actual governance in between.

Corporations get rich from war.

Veterans are thanked on the nightly 3-minute human interest feel-good spot, and nowhere else.

Money is speech.

Corporations are people.

The shrill, stupid, outrageous, and loud get the podium and the spotlight.

Your roads, bridges, electrical grid, and communications infrastructure is crumbling before your eyes.

Elections are legally stolen.

BS is King.

Wall Street/finance/banking fails the nation

and nobody there pays a price

and in fact are saved from the ruin of their own makingby YOU!

National enemies are mis-represented to you.

You support immense legions of deadbeats.

You support immense legions of special interests.

Nobody even questions new weapons systems.

Real taxes are for the little guy.

Tax Loopholes are for the big guy.

Leadership across the board invariably backs big money.

Youre working longer hours than your parents

while taking home less in adjusted wealth.

Education is test scores

while your kids educational status dwindles against international competition

and Indian/Chinese/EVERYBODYS kids eat your kids lunch.

Companies are given tax advantages

and in return deploy technical efficiencies rather than provide work

or move the job off-shore.

Bad stuff always happens, but you blokes have held the world together while all your leaders have looted the last bit of wealth from under you. After two decades of this treatmentand with no indication that the political system intends to remedy ityour Give-A-$hit [GAS] is busted.

Its GAS deflation. This is how empires collapse.

Daybreaker · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

WTF is going on?
Click to expand...

Too much of the wrong drugs. Not enough of the right ones.

The way it looks to me is that "America" is being revealed to be more of a marketing brand than anything else. Once the profits are easiest found elsewhere, that's where the people in charge of large amounts of money decide to put it.

Just kind of the way it goes, from time to time.

tblount · Aug 18, 2011

P. Lotor said: ↑

Lol, a fourth branch of government to monitor waste fraud and abuse in government, like that would ever work!
Click to expand...

It's. Not so funny if you realize we already have it. The 4th branch of the government has been established to monitor and exploit citizens.... it's known as the irs. So why. Not switch to a flat sales tax that could be monitored by a small fraction of the irs and free up the force of the agency to monitor the government since its the government is failing and not the citizens

WanRen · Aug 18, 2011

lizarddust said: ↑

In the last decade or so, to me it seems America is sliding down the poop shute. Since the last global financial crisis the slippery slope has become steeper, the down grading of the credit rating is an indicator. With all of America's wealth, resourses, technology etc, this shouldn't be happening.

Irrespective of which side of the political fence you graze on, the problems point to gross mismanagement.

Without turning this thread into a "we are better than the rest" or Democrat vs Republican slinging match,, WTF is going on?
Click to expand...

The reason is because the problem that was initiated and started during the Bush administration is being blame on President Obama because American GOP and Tea partiers are totally against Pres. Obama because he is black, remember the GOP made a solemn vow that they will make sure that Pres. Obama fails that is why the GOP have voted no again and again because any cooperation will make Obama the black President successful, the GOP are willing to sacrifice the USA for 4 years of hardship just to get rid of a black president.

Til the Last Drop · Aug 18, 2011

WanRen said: ↑

The reason is because the problem that was initiated and started during the Bush administration is being blame on President Obama because American GOP and Tea partiers are totally against Pres. Obama because he is black, remember the GOP made a solemn vow that they will make sure that Pres. Obama fails that is why the GOP have voted no again and again because any cooperation will make Obama the black President successful, the GOP are willing to sacrifice the USA for 4 years of hardship just to get rid of a black president.
Click to expand...

Good god man. If that is all you see at this point I don't know what you are doing investing your time in politics. You might as well be a paraplegic training for the NBA.

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