America -- WTF Is Going On?

We are reaping the benefits of spawning a ravenous a multifaceted beast that has grown strong enough to feed on its benefactor. It honed its blades and tactics by corrupting and toppling weaker economies and governments.. loaned them money through the IMF.. imposed austerity on the populace when the corrupt puppet governments failed to pay back the loans ( as planned).. they sold off the nations infrastructure and resources to the highest bidder.

I think we as a nation are on step 3 of a 5 step program... we still need to default on our international loans and another problem is is that we have a crapload of small arms in this country and the government isnt sure the military will side with them when the gloves come off in step 5... but they are working on this problem by " Gun barrel nation building" exercises abroad

Why do you ask.. would you like to apply for a Visa?

 

You make a good point. Wallstreet has really got their teeth into the political system and like a pit bull, they refuse to let go.

 

ok, I get that, but the funny thing would be to assign the government the task of monitoring itself.

 

At the risk of sounding like Awryly, maybe it really is karma....

 

What's going on is the democrats elected a corporate crony and a social authoritarian and still think that he is for the little man. What's going on is the republicans appear to be completely hoodwinked by an open borders, uber-crony liar. What's going on is the mainstream media is also corporate/state owned and operated. Follow the money is a always a good recommendation.

Maybe we should support our military and get them out of the sand nations? Maybe we should restore liberty and end corporate fascism?

2008 campaign:

 

This is a very interesting concept.

The way America "markets" itself to the rest of the world could be the key. Many people globally have the wrong impression of America. Many only get an idea of Americanism though popular culture, films/movies etc.

I see this happening here in Laos with the young people here. American culture has spread from Thailand into Laos via Thai television which is then beamed into Laos.

 

Ummmmm,,,no..

 

We deregulated the banking and mortgage and insurance industries that were put in place after the 1930s depression. Banksters and Wall st got greedy with no over sight. Easy money to the public and houses were ATMs.
Then someone said I want my money and the big debt everyone had led to a huge contraction in spending. And now people are paying down debt instead of spending.
Housing is still in trouble.

 

I imagine you don't mean the credit card.

 

We have only two kinds of money.... NECESSITY and discretionary.

We really don't spend necessary money, we just use it to cover essential goods needed for survival. We SPEND discretionary money on things we want that entertain us and improve the quality of life and health and happiness. The banking industry does NOT contribute to extra income. On the contrary they create inflation and inflation takes AWAY the value of our savings and diminishes our discretionary income because wages NEVER keep pace with prices of goods and services. The banking system DEVALUES wages... thus decreases spending in order to CREATE borrowing and PROFIT for their industry. Am I the only one who understands these fundamentals?

Can you think for a minute ...what if it went the other way... prices fell and fell and our wages stayed the same. We would have MORE purchasing power, more money to SPEND. ....oh and need to borrow LESS. .... a formula for FAILURE for the banking system.

We need a "contracting" economy... where the VALUE of money is INCREASED. The banking system would never support that.

They simply TAKE money out of the hands of consumers (for their own profit) that we would use it in a way that created more PROFIT for business and industry and grow the economy. The entire world of commerce would LOVE that.

humm.... they housing crash would have been avoided, taxpayers would not have been raped for bailouts of freddy and fanny.. and the list goes on.

 

Wait, so you are saying there should be absolutely no credit? And what you fail to understand is there is more money. Based on your theory, the economy would best function with $1... since $2 would be inflationary.

Prices falling based off more efficient productivity is one thing, but that requires innovation, specialization, and growth. Prices falling because of deflation is the worst possible thing for the economy. This would mean that simply holding on to cash was profitable. Sounds like a great idea, but it is most definitely not. Inflation is the catalyst that creates this massive economy!!

Where would people get credit?

Logical fallacy, you are assuming we would have been in the position we were before the housing crash with out the banking system.

 

The people/voters aren't monitoring government... they would NEVER NEVER NEVER allow refs to be paid by gamblers in a ball game. But that's what voters are doing by allowing elected officials to make calls/decisions in favor of the highest donors to heir campaign.

I would argue that an institution such as the IRS that can and does identify a single taxpayer - among 350 million citizens - who has misused a (personal) restaurant receipt as a business expense... can find when a contractor sells a hammer to the government for $100,000. The IRS is not a branch of the government... they are an accounting firm outside the government... that's why so many people claim they are not authorized to monitor and tax citizens.

OF course they DO whatever the party in office instructs them to do... give credits for specific investments, increases or decreases taxes based on income levels, etc. If taxpayers would only ELECT enough representatives that would instruct them to audit government as strictly and efficiently as they audit citizens.... we would all be amazed at how far the tax dollar would stretch.


Can I get an amen?

 

Whewww.. finally you get it! Hurray! You may not agree but if you can understand that paying INTEREST makes a product cost MORE... well you may never get it. My wife never did. She thought that if something was on sale and she put it on her credit card and carried interest payments for a few years she still got a deal. In the end she paid MORE than TOP DOLLAR for those curtains.

I know that some credit is necessary to purchase high priced items and expand businesses... but it's WAY WAY overused by the citizens in this country... that's why we are borrowing from the Chinese people who do not believe in debt... they believe in SAVING. So now we are at their mercy. Is that the FREEDOM we boast about? I say NOT!

And if you think debt is great and can't understand how it results in OVERPAYING for goods and services then the banks love you.

Obviously you aren't alone... our elected officials love to borrow and borrow and pay interest and leave debt for future generations. That debt they are leaving is economic slavery... NOT FREEDOM. You can take that to the bank.

ABSOLUTELY... that second dollar is counterfeit... simply printed out of thin air and results in devaluation of the first dollar... making it worth 50 cents. Will you sell me your big tv for money I printed in my basement last night?

Holding cash is WAY more profitable than paying interest on debt.

They don't NEED it.

I don't have credit... I haven't been in debt in over 20 years. If I can't raise the cash to buy something I don't buy it. I don't OVERPAY for the stuff I want and need - by giving a bank 15% extra over the purchase price for using their credit card.

There were 750,000 Vietnamese brought to this country after the fall of Saigon and a few thousand were settled in my area. They fish and work hard and help each other buy houses and automobiles. The ONLY form of non paper money they use is Postal money orders. They don't deal with banks and they are doing very well. I would imagine the Amish are doing fine without banks too. I recognize the value and usefulness of banks but they didn't rise to the top of the food chain without taking VALUE out of the economy.

Come out of the closet.. you must be a banker? That's still not as bad of a bottom feeder as a lawyer. haha

 

I never use credit cards, but are you talking about school loans, business loans, mortgages, etc should not exist? What you are talking about would really destroy the economy.

That's a stretch. And we aren't "borrowing" from the Chinese people, we are giving them our currency. They are investing that currency in us to get a return. They are not doing us a favor other than providing us crappy goods

More demand also creates more jobs. It's a complete balance and all you are focusing on is the cost of goods. You mention nothing about wages, return on investments, etc. Maybe coming from a financial background I believe inflation separates those who understand money from those who don't. But consumerism and debt has create this absolutely obese and robust country.

Interest is just another form of income. I don't understand how you guys do not see how inflation only hurts those that do not use their money or those that do not increase their wages. But regardless there is more money in the economy for everyone else to get. And inflation allows the country to be a net gainer rather than stagnant.

 

For me, governments have forgotten they work for their constituents and not for large corporations and business.

 

Nope, they haven't forgotten. They have worked for corps and more specifically banksters for 100 yrs or more.
They never really worked for us.

 

Inflation is just another way for the gov't to steal our money.

 

You are saying we can't live like our forefathers? Our grandparents and their parents PAID AS THEY GO. We had better re-learn how to do this... OR all our wealth end up in the central banks... that mismanage and gamble and lose it and come to taxpayers with hat in hand asking for a bailout.

Didn't YOU just witness that happen a year or two ago? I did... I guess I just happened to have my tv on one day... they were talking about the banking bailout on every channel except the cartoon network... were you watching cartoons?

CUT them out of the system as much as possible and get back to what actually works.

My, aren't we so kind to LET them loan us their savings?

You just don't know how to ask the right questions.... what you should be asking is WHY AREN'T WE loaning THEM money? The owners of debt have the power and FREEDOM.... we LOSE freedom to our debtors.

The COST determines if they sell or set on the shelves. Domino sugar sits piled up on walmart shelves beside walmarts generic brand that sells out.

But your economy is bogus, false and falling like a house of cards. Your "robust" economy clearly lacks discipline to succeed long term.

Please try to understand that INFLATION causes your life savings to lose it's value. If you worked long hard hours and made sacrifices to save $100,000 ...and when you need it.... it only has $50,000 worth of real purchasing power... you'll be cursing your "robust" economy.

Yes, for the lender... like the farmer in China who collects interest on the money he loaned America.... and for the banker who mortgaged your home causing the cost ...over a 30 year finance to expand 3 times the original purchase price.

What is a wage increase? Wages are going down due to so many desperate people out of work who will work for LESS than you are getting paid.

Why do you think an increase in wages.. if there is such a thing.... will EVER keep pace with the rising inflation prices in the stores and gas stations and pharmacies?

I used to buy a soft drink and candy bar on the way to school for a total of 25 cents... that same candy bar and drink will cost $3 now. Did my wages go up
1,200 times? I wish!


[quot]And inflation allows the country to be a net gainer rather than stagnant.[/QUOTE]

How much inflation do you want? If a little is good then is a lot great? You should move to Zimbabwe since they have the highest inflation on earth.

 

They also rode horses and died from the flu. Do you really want to live like our forefathers?

This is just talk. Where would we be three years ago with out the banking system? You are acting as if this massive economy just grew itself, then the banking system ruined it. I think there is a much stronger correlation to massive growth and banking... but what do I know!

They don't "loan" us their savings. They invest their money in America because that is their smartest move. What power do they have? To purchase American goods and products! Oh my gosh, they can buy millions of iPhones and make Apple really wealthy!! I don't think you understand how foreign relations work when it comes to fiat money. They have very little control over us just because they own debt... in which we just rollover as it comes due.

What? This plays no relevance to our discussion on debt and the increased demand it creates

Ahhh yes, the American economy with 90% employment, $14 trillion GDP, more billionaires than the next 9 country's combined, more millionaires than the next 5 country's combined, a state that is in the top 10 GDP's in the entire world. Yes it looks like America is a house of cards.

Only if your life savings is stuffed in a mattress or you are on fixed income.

The farmer doesn't loan money to China. You are so oblivious to how foreign relations work. The farmer receives USD, China's Govt (central bank) buys the USD from the farmer in exchange for their local currency, then that is transferred over to China's account at the Federal Reserve.

And yes, bankers screwed the country during the housing bust... I will not deny that.

That's more on the fiscal side than the monetary side

It has relatively kept paced the past 300 years. What makes you think it won't? It has become worse since Reagan's tax cut policies which have allowed the rich to create much more of a disparity of wealth.

Maybe we just live different lives. There is nothing that I really want that I can't or haven't been able to get.

I never said high inflation is good. I said inflation rewards investors. The key is to target a 2-3% inflation rate for economic growth.

You are living in a Utopian society where banking doesn't exist, yet we still have this massive economy. Until you can show how getting rid of the banking system would allow larger economic growth, which you would then win a Nobel Prize for, you have no real argument.

 

Too much government, not enough free market and personal responsibility.

One of the extremely destructive side affects of too much government is the entitlment mindset.

Examples are the fact that despite the massive burden passed to the next generation, current recipients expect their benefits.

Secondly, those on unemployment benefits think they have earned and paid for them, when they have not. Unemployment is a welfare program.

These destructive mindsets did not exist during the greatest prosperity of this country.

 

Yes, unemployment is a welfare program, however, it is different from standard welfare.

Employers pay a Federal Unemployment tax (FUTA) to supplement unemployment benefits paid out. The rate of this tax is influenced by the number of employees that have submitted unemployment claims over a period of time.

 

The US Supreme Court intervened and issued a completely erroneous decision in 2001 in the case Bush v. Gore.

 

That's were we are headed... so we better learn how to skin rabbits and pick roots and berries.

You know more than you think.... you diligently read my post and are slowly picking up bits of knowledge and truth.

Wait till you understand compound interest. Then the light will come on.

I just a big chunk of my money out of the bank today in cash. I was thinking of stuffing my mattress but now I realize that's the first place you would look and it may not be safe.

Here is what you haven't realized... savings gets you maybe 1 or 2 % interest... but paying off a credit card gets you 15% interest savings. Same for paying off almost all debt. There is not a better return out there right now.

Consider the facts.... they can't loan money (buy our debt) if they have NO money to purchase it with.... so the PEOPLE of China put their savings in banks that make it POSSIBLE for China to buy our bonds (loan us money)

If the farmers and people in China were in debt like we are.... well WE certainly can't loan anyone money since we don't have any.

$114,434: Average household debt, including mortgages, credit cards, and student loans.

I have only one real argument... I have no debt... banks don't own me... if I want to go to work or go on a cruise it's TOTALLY my decision. If I had bank notes to meet I would not have that freedom.

I know financial institutions have a need and usefulness in the economy... what I also know is the LESS they are used the more healthy our economy is.

 

you can thank greenspan for this...in 2001 he prevented the recession that should of come after the dot.com bubble,,,,,and in so doing created the housing bubble......and now the bailout bubble.....the economy desperately needs to rebalance and be rid of all the mal.investments....otherwise this stagflation will continue until eventually hyper-inflation takes over!

 

What's so hard to understand? Every american business wants to manufacture in China and have customer service in India, pay peanuts to their Chinese, Indian, Mexican workers...yet they expect to charge american prices to american middle class for their goods and services. Chickens are coming home to roost, you refuse to pay middle class wages to your employees, pretty soon you have no middle class worth speaking of and [gasp] you've lost your entire customer base in the process too. The middle class was sustained by a couple of bubbles (internet and housing) for a decade or so but the party is over. Let's just see how they sell their overpriced cr&p to the Chinese...Good luck.

For the record it's hard to blame the business or business people, they do what's best for them and they are forced to compete. There is no excuse for the government though, both republican and democratic, that did nothing to prevent the loss of a number of american industries and they are totally to blame for the slow death (accelerating though as we speak) of American middle class.