"American truckers distance from Canada protests"

Exactly right - Trudeau cannot, without the US, resolve the cross border issue. As for truckers' representatives, their association has already disavowed their actions. And, its important to note (AGAIN) that 90% of truckers are vaccinated.

 

I have no problem with organizing travel in a safe manner, banning travel is a violation and should not be acceptable. To adults.

 

And so 10% of the truckers are denying 90% the right to make a living.
Not very democratic, is it?

 

Moving away from the specific example now, a rejection of laws is a rejection of the consequences of anarchy.
When discussing law, it is often more important to recognise the exceptions rather than the rule because most are made to solve a particular problem.
For example you may object to the police right to break into your home but the law then specifies a serious suspicion that you are a terrorist or deeply involved in it.
That law is for the exceptions to normal behaviour.
Course kevetching about it is a simple generalised objection to widespread state interference...which in fact may or may not be a relevant example.

 

Societies don't reject laws, they reject laws that violate rights. You may decide to surrender one or more of your rights, you may not surrender mine.

 

You are being quite hypocritical, here. You deny a country has a right to decide who comes across the border, but you have no issue if I get shot because the cops executed a no knock warrant to the wrong address.

Your concept of personal freedom is truly bizarre.

 

What? I believe in border security but that isn't the same as a mask mandate. I told you not to go for your gun and that shows some degree of concern for your safety.

 

You don't believe the USA has the right to have criteria for crossing our border. You just said so.

Innocent people die when no knock warrants happen. Don't reach for my gun? If someone enters your home in the middle of the night without knocking, and you are an innocent person, are you going to just hope and pray it's the police and not a criminal? C'mon - don't grab my gun in my own home when someone is breaking in. That's freedom to you? Pfft.

You should respect my right to own a gun for my protection. You truly are anti freedom, eh?

 

No I didn't
I think most of the 'innocent' people we discuss here on PF have a pretty good idea as to who might slam through their door.

 

Ok, so we agree then. You keep changing your mind. I'm glad you think it's okay for the USA to have the right to determine criteria for who comes across the border.

As to the other; innocent people and pets have literally died because they tried to protect themselves during the no-knock warrant. Reason? Cops went to the wrong address. No knock warrants are a giant poo stain on freedom.

 

They save a lot of cops

 

The sentences do not hang together. They are about different things.

Rights don't exist until law gives birth to them.
The rights of Jews and gypsies etc in Germany didn't exist until the UN gave them the right to exist.
Rights to owning land and countering the king didn't exist until the Magna Carta. and then only for the nobles. Women's rights to vote didn't exist until a hundred years ago.
You are not born with eternal, heaven sent rights...you are born into a society which either gives them to you or not.
So you can reject laws which violate the rights law gave you earlier, but you cannot reject them as an individual.
Law belongs to everyone equally. If your courts decide to reject a law, they reject it for everyone.
So yes, they can surrender your rights.

 

I did not read a lot of the posts here but it is certainly wrong to block roads and bridges and disrupt national and international commerce. That is not peaceful.

It has also given the fascists like Trudeau the excuse to now use totalitarian means to stop the money flow.

 

They are not striking for better pay and benefits. They certainly have the right to do that. Blocking roads and bridges is wrong.

The terrorists would love to be able to do that.

 

The bridges are racist right?

 

There was that incident just after Floyd when a woman was asleep in bed and the police crashed through her door and killed her..can't remember her name.
However there was also the case of Jean-Charles Mendez in London who was shot dead because the police thought his backpack contained explosives.
Laws become more restrictive as an effort to protect the public from harm the first duty of a government, and mistakes are made. Happily, not many.
You simply cannot use one mistake to slam the entire effort .
The Patriot Act, AFAICS, is regularly reviewed because of the sunset clauses written into it. I believe the last review was in 2015 when it became named something else so I don't know if the new one is reviewed. IMO it should and I am sure it is easy enough to find out.

I also note that it clearly says th at i there is enough evidence that the subject of the no knock policy to suspect terrorism (nothing else is mentioned) then the police can use it.
Thee are other laws which use such suspicions as justifications to act...George Floyd for example. Many Stop and Search incidents. Taking people in for questioning.

IMO if the police mistakes the house/business and enters unlawfully (because you are not a terrorist) even then I wouldn't use a gun. I would use another deterrent...a taser gun for example, to knock him out.
and then I would sue the pants off him.

 

Its a bunch of Marxist whiners trying to hurt the economy, and you think it had to happen. Figures.

 

The sentences are perfect..
The rights are birthright, they aren't bestowed. We can lose them over time by not enforcing them but they remain as valid till we decide to reclaim them. Rights were reclaimed with the Magna Carta.

 

They are birthright NOW.
Because someone made them so.
They didn't exist before that.
I am not talking about losing them.
I am talking about having them. There are tends of millions of people who don't have those rights. Because no one has codified them. Your "we" reference is very limited when you want to discuss the Rights of Man.

Before the Magna Carta there were no rights for nobles. They weren't "reclaimed". The MC created them.

The only rights humans were born with which weren't codified are the rights of the strongest. And that belongs to the animal kingdom.

 

The Magna Carta listed the rights and forced the king to recognize them. They weren't a gift, never are, we have to fight for them. We is inclusive as in We, The People.

 

I am afraid you aren't quite right.
There were no god given rights which we merely have to open our eyes and see. Creation didn't come wrapped in a box labelled "rights". They are not a skin naturally attached to our existence.
Religions don't talk about "rights". They don't advocate rights of free speech, of property, of movement, of gender expression.
The different civilisations and peoples CREATED them for the better protection and functioning of society at large.

There is no right which is glued to the fact that we are humans EXCEPT the ones we design for ourselves.
And those are very much contained in the legal areas they apply to...national, state or local. Each area has some different rights to each other...some have the same.

At the dawn of human existence there were no rights other than that of animals...strength. Rights have added to the eradication of the inequalities we do have in society, but unfortunately the people do not uphold them until they are forced to.

 

That's just sad. Thankfully it's also very wrong and a very narrowly held view in the US.

 

Well we could say masking mandates are wrong. What's next....to have it mandated that everyone gets a tracking chip implanted?

 

Looks like they don't need support from irrelevant people.

 

In this theoretical world where your house gets broken into, why in the world would you assume it's a cop executing a no knock warrant? The thought would never occur to me.

No knock warrants get innocent people killed.

The Patriot Act has been rubber stamped out of sunset every time. The secret FISA court rubber stamps almost 100% of the requests that come in from of them, with little or no hearing.

I want my 4th amendment rights back!!