"...and justice for all": Polygamy law stuck down!

Why 'must' you do that?

Yeah but that's all in the eye of the reader - not some universal criterion of analysis that you have with, say, scientific research.

Infanticide and abortion are common place in the bible - often commanded by god. In the Christian world, the practice of abortion has been common place. It has never been widely condemned until the end if the 19th century when the Roman Catholic Church decided it was against it in the middle of the century. Until then, no catholic law prevented abortion. In fact Thomas Aquinas endorsed the practice, except for late term abortions, and some of his contemporaries advocated infanticide. No where in the Bible does it say 'do not kill'. Even Jesus says killing disobedient children is condoned by God. As I say, it's all personal opinion at the end of the day, but history shows the Bible is one violent piece of moral instruction.

 

False. Polygamy is still illegal in Utah. What was legalized is cohabitation of more than two sex partners.

 

Christian? And how it comes your conclusion that I was a Christian?

By the way, judgement calls for deliberating a sentence. In this case, I'm not judging anyone, just posting what the Bible says about different topics. The judge, according to the bible, will be God.

 

I strongly think that you better specify where in the bible infanticide and abortion are so "common". I guess you have found such events in several places reading that book.

You mentioned Thomas Aquinas. Lets read about it.

http://www.catholic.com/quickquesti...-occurred-40-or-80-days-after-conception-maki

This is only half true. Aquinas did say an unborn baby receives a soul 40 or 80 days after conception, depending on gender. But he also said abortion is a violation of natural law and is always wrong, no matter when a soul may be infused into the developing child's body.

The 40/80-day view is based on the writings of Aristotle, who said a child becomes human at "formation," the point at which it first "has a human form"--that is, when it looks human. He said this was 40 days for boys and 80 days for girls. Probably this distinction was based on the point at which genitals could be observed on miscarried children. Keep in mind that fetal embryology was then a restricted science; all observations could be made only by the naked eye, the microscope being in the distant future.

Sorry but you were assuming wrong about Thomas Aquinas.

You have mentioned Jesus saying that "killing disobedient children is condoned by God" and I truly would like to have the biblical context from your bible, because mine says nothing similar about Jesus... unless your bible is a pirate version made in China.... who knows...

I like your final sentence, saying that the bible is "one violent piece of moral instruction", I love it, you better get famous one day, and this phrase of yours will inherit "eternity" in the mind of readers... You are a good writer, sadly, your ignorance about the bible and about Thomas Aquinas is very notorious...

 

Here's a few:
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)

Please provide a source to confirm this comment. The link has no historical reference.
Conversely to your unsubstantiated response, here is his actual words confirming my point that abortion was not considered murder until late stage if fetal development;

He wrote: "This sin, although grave and to be reckoned among misdeeds and against nature...is something less than homicide... nor is such to be judged irregular[22] unless one procures the abortion of an already formed fetus."[14][23][24]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_abortion

No sir, you are just ignorant:
“He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” Matthew 15:4-7
Even Jebus accepted infanticide.

Notorious? Lol doubt it.

 

David and Solomon didn't bother asking their wives for their opinions on taking on more wives.

 

We don't know that, do we?

 

Essentially. The Utah War definitely showed how hypocritical our government could be about concepts of liberty.

Granted, this is the same government that began with a document proclaiming all men were created equal yet didn't end slavery until nearly a century later. Add to that the fact that our country was built on stealing land from the natives.

 

And interestingly, some of the same people promoting polygamy would probably end up with no woman since the rich and powerful would get the pick of the litter. We've already seen how this plays out in the middle east and creating a generation of bitter, dateless young men just doesn't seem like a good idea.


But the court decision did a lot less than meets the eye. I've read some legal blogs and even some legal eagles are confused by this opinion. Basically it stops people from being arrested in Utah for cohabitation, which is the state the Sister Wives bunch are in. Only the first wife has a marriage certificate, the rest are just shacking up, although they are married in the eyes of their church.

Marriage Means Nothing

 

The already have one, it's called the Episcopal Church.







Bazzinga!

 

The title of this thread is a lie.

Polygamy laws were not struck down. Cohabitation ones were. As well they should have been, I'm surprised they even existed in the first place after Lawrence v. Texas.

 

Let's say a monkey decides to marry six unicorns, and they have eleven monkeycorns. But there are three other monkeys that tapped this one horned horse and none of the albacore tuna judges can figure out which monkey knocked up the unicorn. Then the Unicorn gets pissed off and ditches all the moneys, takes her monkeycorns and runs away.

What are the confused Tuna judges to do?

 

How is that relevant to a discussion about what marriage laws should look like in this country? We are not a Theocracy, and what this or that religious tome has to say about it is completely irrelevant.

 

I was answering to a participant who implied the bible in this issue. I said -before the text quote of mine used by you- that with social laws, marriage between homosexuals might be allowed, but such is not allowed by God according to the bible.

 

How many people does it take to make a "village"?

 

don't worry, some guy will be happy to pick up your slack.

 

the point is government shouldn't be regulating marriage AT ALL. not between a man and a woman, between two men (or two women), a man and four women, a woman and four men, or two men and two women. <---wouldn't that last one make holidays interesting?

- - - Updated - - -

thanks, but i don't support it as much as i support the right of people to make their own mistakes. 4 mother-in-laws!!

 

no, it's bigamy that's illegal. if there weren't the recent invention of the marriage license, there couldn't be bigamy.

 

Why does the right insist on breaking down a Tradition?

The subjective value of morals is just that; our Founding Fathers, on the other hand, Ordained and Established our secular and temporal morals in our republic for their Posterity in our federal Constitution and supreme law of the land.

We have a First Commandment, for a Reason.

 

But I still support your right to support polygamy.

 

Maybe we can claim we merely need more practice with the Art of the Husbandman.

 

The ancient Romans had that figured out 2500 years ago.

If a female leaves her master/husband, she's on her own.

If she takes "her" child, the husband/father is not liable for its care.

In this case, she's leaving her husbands.
The principle remains the same.

BTW men used to take wives. They did not need a license.

The marriage license was created to control men.

A license is permission to do that which is otherwise unlawful.

Living with a gal is not unlawful, except in the shrivelled minds of pharisees and scribes and pretend Christians filled with the doctrines of the Pharisee.

Joash was seven years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years in Jerusalem.
And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest.
And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters. 2nd Chronicles 23:1-3

 

Then you don't think much of children, obviously.

 

Great quote. It is exactly what happened in America.

"When I am weaker than you, I ask you for my freedom because that is according to your principles.
When I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles."~ Frank Herbert

View attachment 24440

 

the planet only needs one male (if he has perfect chromosomes, like mine) to keep humans on it.