AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

Where? What kind of house? What kind of neighborhood?

 

1. Agreed.
2. Consumers have to make enough income themselves to afford being consumers.
3. Disagree. Wealth disparity is based on several interconnected causes, among them the fact that the wealthy control money holdings, the money flow, most of the employees who make the decisions about who gets loans & how those loans are used, which applicants will be funded, and how much money to make available for outside investment loans. I'm not an economist, but I'm sure it's more complicated than I've posted here, and the wealthy own & control every single step of the process here, which means without their approval & support, the money just doesn't get to those who want to use it. That's NOT laziness or disinterest. It's the wealthy looking out for themselves. And we've had more than enough of that.
4. Been there done that.

 

And there's your problem. Expecting champagne on a beer budget.

 

Financial health in the First World is not a function of what we earn, it's a function of what we spend. Welfare recipients can purchase property in America, if they want it badly enough.

 

And you'll still be wrong. We live in the First World, which means anyone sufficiently determined will be able to achieve financial security. I have seen people with literally nothing (no education, no money, etc) go from welfare level poverty to middle class in the space of 20 years by living like monks and remaining with family to reduce costs. I've also seen working class people educate themselves (studying at night while working full time) not just out of poverty, but into the 'rich' category. I've seen working class people end up with vast property portfolios. Etc etc.

What ALL of the above have in common is: iron self-discipline. A personal strength that renders the individual immune to the ordinary fluctuations of economies and business culture. A personal strength that not all of us have .. and THAT is the reason for the wealth divide. It does not come from a 'concept' (like business, or welfare), it comes from human nature itself.

 

a certain amount yes, but now the wall is an "immorality" so if Democrats have there way there will be an instant 30 million more illegals to take our jobs and bid down our wages so real Americans wont get a pay raise for another 30 years. Liberal Nazi propagandists will then blame capitalism, exactly like , Hitler blamed the Jews. Why not make liberalism illegal???

 

you mean socialism didn't kill 120 million, Cuba is richer than Florida, East Germany did better West Germany, and liberal programs didn't create the school to prison pipeline??

 

sure there is, as liberalism grows more and more poverty is created until 120 million have starved to death. Did you ever wonder why everyone is equally poor in Cuba?

 

capitalism is love. The wealthy like Jobs Gates Brin Musk Bezos get wealthy by making products everyone can afford, by looking out for the other guy better than anyone else in the entire world. If you doubt it for a second start a business with a product that the poor and middle class cant afford. Can you predict what will happen despite not being a economist?

Also, the wealthy are not a class( except to Marx, your master) but mortal enemies who compete against each other to please the low and middle class. Now do you understand??

 

yes it doesn't help that in America liberals have educated blacks to think that working hard in school is being "white"! That way Nazi propagandists they can blame America and racism when blacks don't perform well!

 

With the average cost of a house around $1 million where I live, and the cheapest housing in much of California sitting at about $750,000, anything out there for $8,000. couldn't be much of a bargain. To use it as evidence supporting our current economic system as being OK, seems to me disingenuous.

 

The particle of "truth" that you loyalists for capitalism keep missing is that while welfare recipients have the "right" to buy property with their welfare income, the system won't allow it, and the cost of real estate in America is so high it is out of reach of welfare recipients. Therein lies the rub. Those with money reap the benefits of our society, while those without money can't, and the money is being funneled at an ever increasing rate directly into the pockets of the ultra wealthy. Any economic system can be abused by those in power. In America, it has been. You can be loyal to capitalism & still acknowledge it needs fixing. It's not a contest between capitalism & socialism. It's a contest to see if we can straighten things out to include those who've been left out for the past 3 or 4 decades. We need to consider ANY workable idea, regardless of its source. We can amend it, mold it, change it, alter it in any way that makes it work for the improvement of our society as a whole. Leaving it the way it is, is our worst choice.

 

You are 100% correct in this assessment and 100% incorrect as to the Causation. This is not the case because the rich have not been taxed enough or because Capitalism is a bad economic system inherently.

Affordable relative to what? Not affordable to those who paid rents in the 70s at rates that were 100% to 1,000% lower. To them, the 60s and the 70s was better from an economic standpoint. Again, not a function of failure to tax the rich. You are flirting with Causation, but you have not yet put your finger on the real culprit - the real problem. Let's see if you finally get there.

You are flirting with Causation again, but not putting your finger squarely on the problem.

Speculation is not anti-competitive. Liquidity comes through speculation and growth through liquidity. You cannot expand a Labor Market which produces Supply for Demand, absent expansion Capital and Liquidity. Speculation fuels this through Investment. Ergo, Speculation is pro-competition and pro-innovation.

Here is my case in point:

Three kids knock on your door one Saturday morning all bright eyed and bushy tailed. Burning with passion, each of them tell about their amazing individual business plans for three new lemonade stands in the neighborhood they intend to build and operate independent of each other. You love lemonade. They go a step further. They tell you that they need funding and they want you to invest. You Speculate by investing in all three (3). This is wise on your part because you have now diversified your Speculation, reduced your risk exposure and increased the probability for seeing a net positive return or at least breaking even. The three young entrepreneurs benefit by receiving the Capital infusion they need to get off the ground.

Now, please tell me exactly how this Speculation did anything but fuel both Innovation and Competitiveness?

These three entrepreneurs did not knock on you door exclusively. They knocked on 200 doors in the broader community and got Funding from 10% of the doors they knocked on. They now have Capital to invest in lemonade R&D, better lemonade stand construction and they can each hire a couple employees causing their businesses to run smoother. This will produce Competition among the Suppliers, provide jobs in the community and you will benefit as the Speculator from the Competition, Innovation (more R&D research) and the increases in Jobs locally. The increases in Jobs mean that as a Speculator, you now have other business models into which you have the option of Investing, as those receiving income from those Jobs re-distribute their earnings into other businesses for their various common purchases.

Speculation is necessary. Somebody has got to put up Risk Capital. Somebody has to fund Research. Somebody has to supply Expansion Capital. Without a funding source, Innovation dies and with it the broader economy.

Capitalism is not at fault here. Regulatory Regimes are at fault here and a system that is predicated upon Fractional Lending is primarily at fault here. All of these underlying issues are mostly symptoms of structural problems that exist with dependency on the Federal Reserve and the removal of authority at the Treasury Department to control the money supply without generating excessive and astronomical debt.

I'll agree with that, modifying it to include the intentional increases in consumer debt to solidify perpetual servitude to the system. But, again, the "rich" are not to blame for this nor is Capitalism. You still have not found the real problem.

Study World History. At no time in the "modern era" of Human History on this planet will you find a civilization, country, nation or people where wealth did not do the talking and where wealth was not concentrated in the hands of the minority. The 'laws' are written by those in power and those in power are those supported by Money Interests. In the past, authority, power and wealth was hoarded by Royalty and Bloodlines. There is nothing new under the sun, just a changing of the players and meaningless changes in the superficial rules that govern. Don't be surprised. This is how the Modern World has worked for some time now and you can go back to approximately 3,100 years BCE to see the instantiation of the paradigm shift.

At the end of the day, Wealth talks and BS walks. That "system" is entrenched. To uproot that system would require a Global Great Enlightenment followed by a Global Great Awakening and coupled to a Global Great Mobilization for Change. You are talking Total Paradigm Shift here on a planetary scale and Humanity is simply too Un-Evolved to pull that off in our life times. So, what can you do. You can learn to play the game of Capital and then go out and be a force for good in the world. Training your Children to do the same and eventually, through generations, the paradigm will shift.

Right now, you are dealing with a massive multi-headed monster having global reach and very deep hooks across all phases and dimensions of life. You cant kill that monster from without. You have no choice but to kill that monster from within by generational influence through your children's children and their unborn offspring.

 

This would be a huge mistake, from which you may not recover. The 19th century belonged to the United Kingdom. The 20th century belonged to the US. The 21st century belongs to China. China, is the new emerging superpower along many different fronts and a force to be reckoned with (not underestimated) going forward. Strategically, China, is in a position to do what neither the UK nor the US can do combined. China, has quietly expanded its base of operations outside its physical boarders. They are growing right now at a rate of 6.8% GDP annually. They have the 2nd largest economy in the world which is merely the tip of the iceberg for China's real physical growth potential.

They have moved into the number three position in Africa, in terms of trading partner relationship. Their Rate Of Growth in exports to Africa, has been nothing short of massive over the past 20 years, dwarfing the nearest competitors in the US and UK over the same period. China, is also expanding its physical presence in the South China Sea with military bases - no doubt to enforce what they believe to be historical territorial rights to areas that most likely contain large amounts of crude. And, China, has invested massive resources into is national aerospace sciences - to include two major aerospace educational facilities, larger than anything else I've ever seen anywhere in the world. They are literally growing generations of Chinese, to think, act and behave in terms addressing all things Aerospace. Aerospace Science has clearly now become a national priority for China. Obviously, China, sees some kind of strategic advantage in putting this much of their national resources into all things Aerospace. A very smart move, IMO.

Incompetent and lacking vision for the future is not how I would describe China.

In the past, they never had the need to! The West was too busy outsourcing its manufacturing to China. China, did not have to impress with new facilities. In fact, this was precisely one of the ways in which China, was able to say: Come here to lower your manufacturing costs because we don't have high cost of maintenance and massive debt to recover in sunk capital investments. If you were from the West and needed to lower your manufacturing costs, you found that message from China, very appealing. Thus, nobody cared to tell China, to upgrade its facilities and clean up its air and water quality for decades. So, the massive growth they have experienced has been a double edge sword in this regard. Hopefully, for the world's sake they find a way to clean up their pollution.

This is a grave mistake. The Rise of China is real. Its shift in Foreign Policy is more engaging, expansive and shaping. This China is a very different China than the one you are accurately referring to from 20-50 years ago. The China of today, is one that many Western Politicians simply do not understand. China, is forging (no pun intended) their own future and it will not always look like that of the West. You cannot bring a purely Western box and expect an multi-thousand year old country to conform to it. China, has only been operating as a nation outside of the Han Dynasty extreme influence for a little over 100 years. So, when you put their economic growth into a small 100+ year window, it becomes easy to see that they've accelerated at a rate that is eye opening.



Innovation comes out of a necessity to grow. This is precisely where China, is right now in its national economy. You can innovate out of inspiration or desperation. The United States Congress locked China, out of the International Space Station for political reasons. China, responded by innovating their own Space Station design and fundamentally backed that with a national industrial aerospace science program that now dwarfs anything we have here in the US in terms of shear size and scope. They are behind us in terms of functional and deployable space technology - but it is only a matter of time before their tremendous resources invested in aerospace sciences allows them to catch-up. If India, was able to do it with far less resources and for less capital outlay then China, will eventually catch up with its aerospace innovation as well. It is only a matter of time.

Africa, is not failing because of Capitalism. Africa, is failing because of Colonialism. Colonists never did anything for Africa, except ruin Her. If the continent of Africa, would unite and remove its colonial rapists, then it could develop into the most powerful nation on earth. It has more natural resources to support itself than any other nation on earth. What Africa lacks is Unity. Africa, was fractured and fragmented for precisely this reason - to keep it weak and unable to recognize its true potential while sucking its natural resources dry. A United Africa would change all that almost overnight. Over the next 100 years of development, Africa would become a world superpower again. It was once a "superpower" thousands of years ago - it can certainly rise from the ashes and do it again.

Asia - with a few exceptions? The list of exceptions you mentioned encompasses just about ALL of Asia, LOL! Those are not exceptions - they are the Rule. Look, Capitalism works to the extent that it can, but it requires Smart Regulation on Operations, not heavy taxation on its participants or operators.

That's just a total misunderstanding of how Capital works and what keeps it interesting in your economy. Capital, can go anywhere it wants to grow. It can pick up its marbles and go play in some other sandbox. Margins and event horizons may be different, but Capital will go where it can in order to grow. If you tax Capital into oblivion, it will take flight. If you regulate Capital into oblivion, it will restrict its flow. These two results hurt Labor more than Capital. Placing a tax wedge between Capital and Labor, forcing arbitrary and ineffective regulations through heavy taxation only dries up Liquidity, stalling both growth and innovation.

In the West, we don't have a Capital problem. We have a Capital Management problem. Government is the problem because it creates debts The People have to pay. So, instead of running budget surpluses and being the largest lender to the world, the United States is the largest debtor and borrower in the world. This leaves The People with $22 Trillion in debt and it steals their ability to build real wealth of their own. The People, are losing not because of Capitalism, but because their government has turned them into Economic Slaves through National Debt and its incessant mismanagement of tax revenues. Asking rich to pay more taxes does nothing to put an end to the continual mismanagement of tax dollars by the government. So, more taxes for anybody, rich or poor, is not the answer.

There ya go! That's much closer to the real problem at hand. Except, you forgot to mention the Source of Borrowing for these corrupt politicians. Here in the US that source is the Federal Reserve. A private bank with no fiduciary responsibility to The American People, none whatsoever. This is essentially the private bank of the Congress as well. Congress gets to create money bills that it knows will blow-up the debt the President signs off knowing he's continuing the enslavement of The American People and the problem continues without a solution because The People, never figure out how badly they are being hurt by the entire scheme. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve, each year assumes ownership of an ever increasing amount of our National Debt. Literally, turning every single American into a Debt Slave to the Federal Reserve.

No, no, no, no. That's not a solution. That's Anarchistic Socialism which will ultimately destroy itself. It is a knee jerk reactionary response to an otherwise simple fix. You have to do two things primarily.

First, repatriate by regulation all Foreign Corporate Capital sitting abroad for those corporations wishing to do business on US soil. Second, kill the Federal Reserve banking scam (including removal of the fractional reserve lending system), return full control of the money supply back to Congress, create a Constitutional Amendment that requires Congress by law to submit a balanced budget each year to the desk of the President and restrict the Treasury Department's printing of money to the level's necessary in order to maintain and sustain a smooth running national economy. Do that work and the US economy will enter a perpetual boom cycle, once again become the world's largest creditor and its growth will be pegged to our ability to Innovate, secure world wide patents and export our new energy technologies around the planet.

Going after the rich guarantees Wealth Gap Wars, Flight of Capital and more Foreign Corporation Offshoring of USD reserves.

Capitalism is better than Socialism. But, unchecked Capitalism with arrant regulation or over broad regulation coupled to a wealth draining Central Bank that sucks the life out of every working American while raising the national debt is clearly not good. Again, the problem is not Capitalism. The problem are the International Banksters plumbing attached to Capitalism by way of an oppressive Central Bank and arrant regulation that does nothing to genuinely protect Consumers and that does everything to further tax the Consumer with fees - raising their cost of living.

Well said. However, taxing the rich is not the answer - they will just go elsewhere or develop a new "jurisdiction" to avoid the tax. Do the two things I mention above and that will dramatically improve the debt, deficit and strengthen the broader economy because it will reign in debt, consolidate capital here at home for innovative investments that are necessary to grow a highly dynamic economy.

I think you understand the problem at a level sufficient to give rise to reasonable alternatives in prose. The corruption of the system, the lack of integrity in the policy makers, the proliferation of propaganda in the media to keep people ignorant and the need to make change - are all things you seem to understand. However, the solution set you provide won't work. It chases "rich people" around the planet as they deny you success by out maneuvering you in "jurisdictions" where you can't touch them. Bottom line. So, trying to tax them into submission just infuriates them and makes matters worse.

You solve this problem by making systemic changes in the core components: Monetary Policy, Fiscal Policy, Banking Regulations, Corporate Registration & Operational Policy. Essentially, you need Total Economic Policy Reform in order to accomplish your goals You can't get there with the Federal Reserve in the way. No matter what you do, debt will continue to rise and Congress will continue to spend because it knows the Treasury Department will continue to print fiat currency being "funded" by the Fed and ultimately hitting the "system" at 9:1 ratio on its way out the door. This will always sink the intrinsic value of the dollar, increasing inflation and stunting the real wealth accumulation of the typical tax payer. That will not change merely by taxing the rich.

You need Total Systemic Reform. And, the Fed must go.

 

I could build and sell housing units in California for $8,000, but the government won't let me.

 

They're poor in Cuba because communism doesn't allow private enterprise.

 

If what you preach were true, why are we in the situation of extreme economic disparity we're currently in?

 

Why not? If you could make that possible, it would go a long way toward alleviating that economic disparity that's destroying our society now. Everyone not currently a millionaire would be eternally grateful to you--as would I.

 

Because the government won't let me. Crony capitalism.

 

That's what I've been saying about American capitalism. It's been hijacked by the super wealthy & no longer serves the average American. Until recent decades, it served the people well, but since the Reagan years, all that changed. I'm not against capitalism. I'm against allowing it to be usurped by the most fortunate few & allowed to be abused by them to enrich themselves at the expense of the American people & the nation itself. Adding good ideas from socialism could alleviate much of the harm done, and get us back on track as a society. We just can't support continuing what you call "crony capitalism."

 

Don't think I support what you call "American capitalism". I support liberty and property rights.

"American capitalism" forbids the sale of $8,000 housing units in California.

 

This shows pure and perfect liberal illiteracy. The Japanese have double our debt and are doing just fine. You might say Americans live on little debt.

 

Gates Jobs Brin Musk Bezos are the super wealth that provide all the jobs, economic growth, and great products that raise or standard of living. This is not hijacking but serving us. They are saintly for sure!

 

inequality is caused by liberals obviously !!
liberal taxes, regulations, unions, deficits, trade deals, drove 30 million jobs off shore, and 30 million illegals amounted to a war on poor and middle class that made them greatly inequal. This is why the poor and middle class voted for Trump to fix liberalism. Do you understand now?

 

you mean a small amount of illegal immigration. Now we have 30 million illegals and Democrats are poised to declare the wall and "immorality" and let in another 30-50 million illegals. Does the liberal understand how that creates huge inequality by driving wages down and down for real Americans?